So is Capt Shaw the new, reigning biggest a##hole in Trek?

[Guy Gardener]

Well, it's not like Seska really stuck around after she was outed as a Cardie...

Although I'm sure that many of the Maquis on board (and even some who weren't Maquis) would have jumped at the chance to kill her once they did find out.



No, it wasn't.

I doubt Voyager even had ordnance like that.

I was exaggerating about Seska, there was just one guy who wanted to bang her, Jonas, so he betrayed Voyager. Still. One guy is a lot. This was after they offered him a farm on a new planet in the 37s. He could have been gone, and had a totally human wife... Did Mike only stay on Voyager to work for Seska?

The Tricobalt devices were used to destroy the caretakers Array.

They are not standard ordinance.

They must have been mission specific.

Therefore, that's what Janeway's mission was.

[Bridge]

(Voyager is still taking weapons fire.)
JANEWAY: Mister Tuvok, ready the tricobalt devices.
TUVOK: Aye, Captain.
JANEWAY: Open a channel to the Kazon.
KIM: Channel open.
JABIN [on viewscreen]: Be advised, Captain. I have called for additional ships.
JANEWAY: I'm calling to warn you to move your vessels to a safe distance. I intend to destroy the Array.
JABIN [on viewscreen]: You can't do that!
JANEWAY: I can and I will. End transmission.
KIM: They're increasing fire, Captain. Shields are holding.
JANEWAY: Move us four hundred kilometres from the Array, Mister Paris.
PARIS: Yes, ma'am.
TORRES: What do you think you're doing? That Array is the only way we have to get back home.
JANEWAY: I'm aware everyone has families and loved ones at homes they want to get back to. So do I. But I'm not willing to trade the lives of the Ocampa for our convenience. We'll have to find another way home.
TORRES: What other way home is there? Who is she to be making these decisions for all of us?
CHAKOTAY: She's the Captain.
TUVOK: The tricobalt devices are ready.
PARIS: We're in position.
JANEWAY: Fire.
(Two blue torpedoes strike the Array. Mega-KaBOOM as it falls apart.)
KIM: The lead Kazon ship is hailing us.
JANEWAY: On screen.
JABIN [on viewscreen]: You have made an enemy today.
TUVOK: They are withdrawing, Captain.

 

[Anduinel]

What I find particularly interesting about the crew dynamic on the Titan is that based on the fact the entire bridge crew followed Seven's order to head to the star system even knowing it was in contradiction to Shaw's orders, Shaw clearly isn't held in high esteem by his crew.

The crew knew that their original course was set, then Shaw refused to go along with a change behind closed doors and, iirc, the crew wasn't privy to this. Then Seven gave the order to change the course anyway. So would the crew have known this was anything except the captain's orders being passed down via his second? Shaw doesn't seem to merit Seven's respect, for the obvious reasons, but I'm not sure how the rest of the crew feels about him.

 

[NCC-73515]

Have some faith. His introduction was a great scene. He'll show he has good sides as well, they're just hidden, and they may be hidden for good reasons.
He's a combination of not only Jellico and Styles, but also early Picard (who dismissed Riker very rudely), TMP Kirk (before Spock joined them), early Sisko (holding Picard responsible for Wolf 359), and Mirror Lorca (putting the mission above all else, including being nice to people).

 

[Tuskin38]

What I find particularly interesting about the crew dynamic on the Titan is that based on the fact the entire bridge crew followed Seven's order to head to the star system even knowing it was in contradiction to Shaw's orders, Shaw clearly isn't held in high esteem by his crew.

Seven could have lied and said the order came from Shaw.

 

[Sumire]

While I would hardly be able to state a definite ranking of rudeness, Captain Shaw was strangely and aggressively impolite. I agree, he has every right to deny Picard and Riker’s sudden odd request. It is also not unusual for people, especially in an ostensibly somewhat informal situation like a shared private meal, to discuss concerns and perhaps even personal judgements of past behavior.

However, why did he start eating before the arrival of his dinner guests? Why did he insult Picard’s gift of wine? Why did he insinuate that Riker has libertine tastes? I used to work at an embassy where part of my job was planning embassy dinners and to put perhaps too fine a point on it, manners matter. These people have titles and ranks. They are part of a formalized order of command. Etiquette is important even if, maybe especially if, you are airing grievances. To drop even the pretense of showing a modicum of respect, even that due to any dinner guest no matter how unimportant? One has to ask why.

I am sure his behavior will be addressed in later episodes but it certainly doesn’t seem to merely be exercising his rights as a captain.

 

[KennyB]

The big issue that's stuck with me about Shaw is that whatever his issues with Picard, Riker, and Seven and what they were doing, he was effectively in hiding the entire episode, on his own ship. He wasn't there when VIPs came aboard; he wasn't there when the ship left spacedock; he only confronted Picard and Riker in private; and he was in his quarters when the ship was hijacked, blissfully unaware until it had arrived at the wrong destination. His showing so far screams "weak leader".

Meh. Even leaders go off duty. And in the real world the captain doesn’t have to be present for everything. Leaving dock isn’t a big deal. He had already given HIS orders. He would expect them to be followed.

 

[The Old Mixer]

The problem is that "off duty" seems to be his default mode. It's not that he wasn't hands-on in any one of these things...it's that he wasn't hands-on in any of them. Appearances matter, and this guy appeared to be hiding in the closet.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The big issue that's stuck with me about Shaw is that whatever his issues with Picard, Riker, and Seven and what they were doing, he was effectively in hiding the entire episode, on his own ship. He wasn't there when VIPs came aboard; he wasn't there when the ship left spacedock; he only confronted Picard and Riker in private; and he was in his quarters when the ship was hijacked, blissfully unaware until it had arrived at the wrong destination. His showing so far screams "weak leader".

You hear that your boss wants to come over for dinner at midnight, an hour past your bed time, and they show up an hour late, so you're already eating when they arrive, have a brief conversation, show them where to sleep, and then pass out for 9 hours.

There are 3 shifts on a fully staffed star ship in the Alpha Quadrant, unless the Captain wants to be different.

Day shift, swing shift and night shift.

Every shift has every essential position fully staffed.

The captain, I guess would be on duty for one shift, on call for a second shift, and totally asleep for the third shift.

The third shift people might have never met the Captain ever.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

He was such a dick.

Disagree. A retired Admiral and a Captain without a billet tried ordering Shaw to change course and gave Shaw a bullshit reason to do so. It was disrespectful and arrogant of both of them to just assume that Shaw would go along it. Shaw was right to refuse the order. If Picard had just been honest with Shaw about his motives, Shaw probably would have still been pissed but I think he would have agreed to a rescue mission.

Picard and Riker think that because they commanded the Enterprise everyone should just kiss their arse. Being a hero doesn't mean you can use people to your advantage. Shaw was right to call them on their bullshit and Admiral Clancy was right to tell Picard to go fuck himself when he asked her for a ship and oh so humbly offered to go down a rank to Captain so he could investigate the Zhat Vash not five days after bad mouthing Starfleet publicly.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

The big issue that's stuck with me about Shaw is that whatever his issues with Picard, Riker, and Seven and what they were doing, he was effectively in hiding the entire episode, on his own ship. He wasn't there when VIPs came aboard; he wasn't there when the ship left spacedock; he only confronted Picard and Riker in private; and he was in his quarters when the ship was hijacked, blissfully unaware until it had arrived at the wrong destination. His showing so far screams "weak leader".

Maybe it was his day off.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

 

[bookworm8571]

He was such a dick.

I like the guy. I wouldn’t want to work for Liam Shaw but he is certainly not out of line to object to a retired admiral and the Titan’s former captain boarding his ship under false pretenses and stealing a shuttle. Picard and Riker could rightfully be court martialed for that. His other behavior was amusingly jerky. He smelled a rat, was right, and assigned them bunkbeds that were fit for junior crewmen instead of state cabins. Maybe Starfleet would reprimand him for that and for being so rude as to refuse Picard’s offer of wine from his vineyard and to tell Riker that he deleted all his bee bop jazz music. On the other hand, violations of protocol don’t amount to stealing a space shuttle or Seven deliberately disobeying orders from a commanding officer and taking the ship somewhere he specifically told her not to go. I also don’t have a problem with Shaw preferring to address his human first officer by what is presumably still her legal name, Annika Hansen. She apparently never got around to changing her name in the records to Seven of Nine. Maybe she didn’t want to. Shaw isn’t going to use a name that probably reminds him of the Borg and what is likely his own personal trauma connected with it.

Based on some of the reviews that mention his background, Shaw was an engineer from a blue collar background. He survived an attack on his ship by the Borg led by Picard as Locutus. I assume the trauma of that — friends dying around him or being turned into Borg and turning on him, his engine room in flames around him and the alarms blaring, maybe Locutus’s voice on the ship’s loudspeaker — is seared into his memory. It will be interesting to find out how that young guy, maybe a crewman, rose through the ranks to become a starship captain. Maybe he was a hero in that battle and was tagged for officer’s training. His love of order and precision and rules, classical music and fine cuisine may be indications of his climb up that ladder and need for control in a world that can turn to chaos in an instant. If he does everything just so, maybe that will never happen to his ship. The PTSD and heavy drinking are a result of his experiences with the Borg. I wonder how Shaw did on the Kobayashi Maru and his psych evaluations. Starfleet doesn’t have a very good track record there.

 

[valkyrie013]

You hear that your boss wants to come over for dinner at midnight, an hour past your bed time, and they show up an hour late, so you're already eating when they arrive, have a brief conversation, show them where to sleep, and then pass out for 9 hours.

There are 3 shifts on a fully staffed star ship in the Alpha Quadrant, unless the Captain wants to be different.

Day shift, swing shift and night shift.

Every shift has every essential position fully staffed.

The captain, I guess would be on duty for one shift, on call for a second shift, and totally asleep for the third shift.

The third shift people might have never met the Captain ever.

Hmm, wouldn't 3rd shift meet the captain most mornings when he/she comes in to relive them at 3rd/1st shift change over? Like when sometimes Data took 3rd shift duties and reported to the captain all is well etc.

 

[XCV330]

The only thing I don't agree with was Shaw putting two decorated officers, one a former fleet admiral, the other a captain who'd commanded task forces, to share a room that would normally be at most for ensigns. It was disrespectful. If he really had no extra space (on a shakedown cruise?.. and when has a starfleet ship NOT had extra space), he should have shown at least enough hospitality to give up his own quarters to the old man.

Unless he has a shitty quarters like Stiles.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Hmm, wouldn't 3rd shift meet the captain most mornings when he/she comes in to relive them at 3rd/1st shift change over? Like when sometimes Data took 3rd shift duties and reported to the captain all is well etc.

The Captains main job is not to sit on the bridge when nothing is happening.

He has a lot of jobs, which is mostly paper work, that he does in his ready room or quarters.

Being on duty is not the same as being assigned a bridge position.

 

[The Wormhole]

The fact Shaw's hardly ever on the bridge actually does make him one of the more realistic Captains in Star Trek. Captains and XOs usually have a lot on their plate, it's rare for either of them to stand watch on the bridge during routine matters. It's usually only in emergency or potential emergencies where there's a policy of either Captain or XO being on the bridge at all times. Otherwise running the bridge is the OOD's job. Star Trek usually ignores this because Captains and XO are typically the series leads and with the exception of TNG S1, they've never bothered to establish who the OOD was on any of their ships. And even then, TNG S1 treated the job as an afterthought, a bogus job they had to come up with for Worf to do when they decided to add a Klingon to the show after all the other roles were filled.

Sticking Picard and Riker in the junior officers cabin is definitely a middle finger to both. Even if the Titan has no VIP staterooms or even visiting officers quarters of minimal luxuries, than policy should be for two of the senior officers to give their quarters to Picard and Riker for the duration of their stay, and they would themselves go to the JO quarters. To stick Picard and Riker there is another example of Shaw going out of his way to be as much of an asshole as possible.

 

[XCV330]

Sticking Picard and Riker in the junior officers cabin is definitely a middle finger to both. Even if the Titan has no VIP staterooms or even visiting officers quarters of minimal luxuries, than policy should be for two of the senior officers to give their quarters to Picard and Riker for the duration of their stay, and they would themselves go to the JO quarters. To stick Picard and Riker there is another example of Shaw going out of his way to be as much of an asshole as possible.

Something like that would normally be putting a lid on your career too, unless you were already planning to retire. Even a long retired admiral would have a of political friends, and word getting back to the right people about that kind of insult would have consequences. He might find himself on a California class, next.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Shaw likes to run a tight ship, and Picard & Riker were unwelcomed surprise guests aboard his ship. It likely would have been a different story if Picard wasn't retired and Riker had a command of his own, but otherwise they were just unannounced party crashers. They were a disruptive element on the Titan, and Shaw didn't owe them anything more than the most basic courtesy. And Shaw was definitely within his right to say no when they demanded he take them wherever they wanted go, standing orders be damned. I think it's actually a good thing to see that not everyone in Starfleet thinks Picard & his crew were the greatest things since sliced bread.

As far as the Titan's living arrangements, it's possible that being a new ship, the vessel didn't have fully furnished passenger quarters yet. Yes, Shaw could have asked a couple of his senior officers to temporarily give up their quarters for Picard and Riker, but Shaw may have felt that was disrespectful to his crew, and that he may have been telling the truth that a shared room was the best that could (or would) be arranged on such short notice for the two unwelcomed visitors who came aboard his ship without actual orders from Command.

 

[valkyrie013]

Wish they did the "Hallway Racks" that Lower Decks use for when Picard and Riker "VIP" quarters. Be a nice nod to LD instead of a room with bunk beds.

 

[XCV330]

As far as the Titan's living arrangements, it's possible that being a new ship, the vessel didn't have fully furnished passenger quarters yet. Yes, Shaw could have asked a couple of his senior officers to temporarily give up their quarters for Picard and Riker, but Shaw may have felt that was disrespectful to his crew, and that he may have been telling the truth that a shared room was the best that could (or would) be arranged on such short notice for the two unwelcomed visitors who came aboard his ship without actual orders from Command.

It's the 25th century and the best tech Starfleet has. They could have replicated them beds and furniture. It would have taken seconds. This is the guy that made a point to start eating dinner before they even arrived. He was in his rights, sure, but that doesn't mean he wasn't an asshole, and he was not behaving like an officer and a gentleman.