No Chinese in Star Trek

[137th Gebirg]

"Kim" is Korean - a very common Korean name - like "Smith" to westerners. See "M*A*S*H" episode "Officer For A Day" on this - "This must be our 'Kim Luck'-y day!" - and of course, in the Asian cultures, the surname/family name comes first.

...

Yes, like the Bajorans.

...

There was Benjamin Lum who, I believe was of Chinese descent, played Chief Shimoda (a Japanese name) in "The Naked Now".

 

[Triskelion]

Daniel Dae Kim, the pilot in Voyager's "Blink of an Eye", is Korean.
He played an alien on the planet with the temporal differential and the "Sky Ship" mythology.

 

[clint g]

yep, Kim is a very common Korean name. That said though, theres enough mixing that it isn't impossible to find a person who is of mostly Chinese ancestry with Kim as a last name.

 

[SFRabid]

I wonder how many Americans appear in early Chinese science fiction?

 

[jeff lebowski]

I wonder how many Americans appear in early Chinese science fiction?

I don't know about Chinese Sci-Fi but Americans/Westerners appear in Chinese movies all the time.

They're usually portrayed as the big bads though. Probably justified in most cases.

 

[Cicero]

Nation states disappeared in StarTrek's fictional timeline, China and everyone else to be replaced by a one-world government.

From Enterprise, we know that the United States and the Royal Navy continued to exist into the 22nd Century, and from Voyager we know that the United States continues in some form at least as late as the 2370s. So, no, nation states didn't disappear.

(Odd fact: the Vulcans actually opened diplomatic relations with the United States, not the United Nations, New United Nations, or some other world or international entity, according to Enterprise.)

I assume they were on the Eastern side during WW-3, Harry Kim was said to be of Chinese, perhaps Cantonese ancestry, others speculate a stronger connection to Korean heritage. But whatever China, Korea he came from no longer exists in the Star Trek universe.

The bailiff in Q's 'post-atomic horror' courtroom was purportedly Chinese, IIRC.

 

[Corran Horn]

One of the Engineering guys who goes bonkers in 'The Naked Now' was Asian. (not sure if he was Chinese)

 

[WalkinMan]

I think it would be great to have a Chinese main cast character on Star Trek, although naturally they should do a lot more to flesh out and create a well-rounded character.

One thing I thought a bit funny was how they cast Garrett Wang (Chinese) to play Harry Kim (Korean), and Linda Park (Korean) to play Hoshi Sato (Japanese). Considering the ethnic tensions/differences...oh well. At least the execs didn't do what they did to Margaret Cho (Korean) in her short-lived sitcom, asking her "Can you act more...Chinese????!!!" Accounts indicated that the suits were quite nervous and scrutinized Kate Mulgrew as the first female lead though.

 

[Red Ranger]

You know what's even more tiresome? People objecting to threads like this as if the op shot their dog. It's a question. Geez! -- RR

 

[Timo]

(Odd fact: the Vulcans actually opened diplomatic relations with the United States, not the United Nations, New United Nations, or some other world or international entity, according to Enterprise.)

I'm sure they got confused by the name or something.

(To be sure, there probably wasn't any world organization in existence at the time the Vulcans arrived. If there were, the matter would probably have been brought up when Q summarily dismissed the New United Nation's ideals as something that had died with that organization. Surely Picard would have objected that the Even Newer United Nations now upheld those ideals as of the late 2070s.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[S'kai]

My thanks to those who have contributed to this thread. I must bear some responsibility for some of the tacks it has taken, but I have learned a bit.

To return to what originally started me down this trail, here is the original quote from David Gerrold's "The World of Star Trek":

"As an aside here, let me point out that the proportion of blacks and Oriental on Star Trek was not a fair or accurate representation, at least not of the human race in general. The white race is in the minority--less than a third of the world's populaton. Most of the rest are black and yellow. It's a probable assumption that this proportion will not change significantly in the next two hundren years. We should have seen some of that reflected in Star Trek's casting. (The network, however, specifically forbade the use of any Chinese crew . . . )"

It is the last sentence the pinged me. Thinking about it now, it was the NETWORK, makes it more comprehensible (I guess). Did the network's policy continue for the Next Generation. Was some sort of precedent set? After TOS were the Chinese simply forgotten about? (Population statistics aside, the non-recognition of communist China meant that most Americans knew virtually nothing about China, and it was not in anyone's consciousness as a world player as it is now. In a certain sense, they just didn't exist).

Again, I make no accusations. I am trying to understand. I welcome your thoughts.

 

[SmoothieX]

the unnamed maintenance guy O'Brian and Bashir ran into on the Enterprise-A spring to mind, i'm sure there are others.

Whoa - I don't remember the episode where they ended up on the Ent-A. Musta missed that week.

 

[Triskelion]

Most people now don't know the first thing about China. And it ain't on the Discovery channel.

It may sound racial but it may be political. Without more info it's hard to say--and I for one am loathe to ascribe motives to people who've been quoted out of context.

I do opine that to expect equal treatment one should be willing to give equal regard....

 

[M'Sharak]

One of the Engineering guys who goes bonkers in 'The Naked Now' was Asian. (not sure if he was Chinese)

The actor was at least part Chinese (born in Hawaii.) The character's name was Jim Shimoda, which would make him of Japanese ancestry.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Jim_Shimoda

 

[trash80]

the unnamed maintenance guy O'Brian and Bashir ran into on the Enterprise-A spring to mind, i'm sure there are others.

Whoa - I don't remember the episode where they ended up on the Ent-A. Musta missed that week.

yes sorry i meant the NCC-1701, but then again you knew that too

 

[137th Gebirg]

I'm so glad people read the whole thread around here.

 

[Mistral]

they all got their asses nuked in WWIII, so they're too busy trying to rebuild...

If you dig around in Memory Alpha-re WWIII, Col Green, etc there are cross-references to the ECON(which China was a part of) and the idea that the final Missile Toss was highly in favor of the West and the N.U.N.
What I read reminds me of that line from Red Dawn

"We got 600 million screaming Chinamen backing us up.

I thought it was a billion screaming Chinamen?

It was."

I think the area was just devastated and still hadn't recovered completely by Kirk's time.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think it would be great to have a Chinese main cast character on Star Trek, although naturally they should do a lot more to flesh out and create a well-rounded character.

One thing I thought a bit funny was how they cast Garrett Wang (Chinese) to play Harry Kim (Korean), and Linda Park (Korean) to play Hoshi Sato (Japanese). Considering the ethnic tensions/differences...oh well. At least the execs didn't do what they did to Margaret Cho (Korean) in her short-lived sitcom, asking her "Can you act more...Chinese????!!!" Accounts indicated that the suits were quite nervous and scrutinized Kate Mulgrew as the first female lead though.

Is it really any different that having an Englishman playing a Frenchman? Or (to step outside of trek) the English James Bond being played by the Irish Pierce Brosnan?

 

[WalkinMan]

You make an interesting point, I think it's possible for someone to play another of a different ethnic background, however I'm pretty sure that we also have a lot more examples of English characters being played by English actors, French by French, etc. in Western cinema (and) Star Trek.

Just to use your sig, Indiana Jones ("American") played by an American, Harrison Ford. If Indiana Jones was played by a Mexican actor, maybe that could work too. I'm of the opinion that Picard was rather English in his sensibilities, most notably affectations for Shakespeare; also Pierce Brosnan's 007 was more generically secret agent than British, after all we could go to Scotsman Sean Connery and serving England, etc.

I suppose Harry Kim was more American than anything else, although promotions and all he didn't receive much character development actually. It comes down to the portrayal of minorities on TV, do they actually bother to have the actual minorities being represented cast or not? Should they? I think that it makes sense for that to be a consideration, out of many.

I should mention also that we did get Hikaru Sulu (Japanese) played by George Takei (Japanese American). And Garrett Wang was the first main Chinese cast member on Star Trek, it's just that his character wasn't. Hence the topic of this thread.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You make an interesting point, I think it's possible for someone to play another of a different ethnic background, however I'm pretty sure that we also have a lot more examples of English characters being played by English actors, French by French, etc. in Western cinema (and) Star Trek.

When the movies is made in England or France the chances that the cast will be primarily English or French seems likely. I just saw a French version of "Lady Chatterly". The cast was French while the characters were all English.

As for Trek:
Kirk (American, possibly of Scots ancestry) Shatner (Canadian & Jewish)

Spock (Human ancestry: possibly American/English) Nimoy (American/Russian Jew)

McCoy (American/Scots?) Kelly (American/Irish?)

Scott (Scottish) Doohan (Canadian/Irish?)

Sulu (American?/Mixed Asian) Takai (American/Japanese)

Uhura (African/East African?) Nichols (American/West African?)

Chekov (Russian) Koenig (American/Lithuanian Jewish)

And thats just TOS.

Just to use your sig, Indiana Jones ("American") played by an American, Harrison Ford. If Indiana Jones was played by a Mexican actor, maybe that could work too. I'm of the opinion that Picard was rather English in his sensibilities, most notably affectations for Shakespeare; also Pierce Brosnan's 007 was more generically secret agent than British, after all we could go to Scotsman Sean Connery and serving England, etc.

If the Mexican actor could do an American accent I don't see why not. Bond is always British no matter who play him. And Scotland is part of the UK so Connery and Bond are both British and Scottish