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What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

"Code of Honor(TNG)" is so much worse than "Threshold" and in almost every respect.

For me, the worst is "Spock's Brain" and a few others.

Enterprise had the potential to become the most interesting Star Trek show. With it being set in a relatively "primitive" era, it could have shown stuff that later series generally didn't: not only primitive technology, but also struggling with logistics, more focus on interpersonal stuff... basically what new Battlestar Galactica did, or Voyager's Year of Hell two-parter.


It did? I never sensed any real potential from that show. I still don't.


I think Threshold is a fun, if goofy, episode to watch when you want to watch something to turn your brain off for 42-odd minutes :)


The first 30 minutes of "Threshold" is pretty good and I saw no need to "turn off my brain". The last 10-15 minutes of the episode is another matter.



The difference, though, was the VOY's premise at its very core, sort of demanded a more serialized "consequences matter" format and approach.

I don't agree. Especially since Voyager spent nearly all of its time within the Delta Quadrant, traveling. It sounds as if you're trying to force some idea of what "Voyager" was supposed to be, so that you can criticize it when it didn't do as you had "expected". Yes, the series had a few serialized arcs every now and then, but the idea that it should have been completely serialized makes no sense to me.
 
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"Code of Honor" --> Everyone is right to criticize it, and I don't disagree with them, but I can still sit through it.
"Spock's Brain" --> So bad it's good. I don't need "Masterpiece Theater" 24/7.
"Threshold" --> Horrible as a live-action episode, somehow good as a short done in TAS style.
"Let He Who Is Without Sin" --> I'll never watch it again. Once was enough. Worf was horrible in this one.

Battlestar Galactica is my dividing point between the current generation of sci-fi TV and the previous generation. I won't call it "new" because it's almost 20 years old, though.

Now for the Controversial Opinion: As much as I like "Year of Hell", I wouldn't have wanted an entire season of it. Maybe on another series, but it was too tonally different from VOY's norm. A two-parter was good enough. After a certain point, a show is what it is, and VOY wasn't that type of show.

Plus, the fourth season of VOY would've been during the '97-'98 Season, the same time as the sixth season of DS9. We wouldn't have needed to have the Dominion War and the Year of Hell going on at the same time as permanent settings.
 
"Threshold" is dumb but at least it's not offensive or just damn lazy. Bad doesn't necessarily mean a dumpster fire.

It’s not just dumb, though, it’s offensively dumb. For me, TOS could (almost) get away with crazy shit like “Spock’s brain” because it had a bit of a tongue in cheek feel to it, at least from its second season onward. “Voyager”, however, was so incredibly po-faced and serious, which was Berman through and through. As a result, I’d say “Threshold” came off all the more embarrassing. I’d love to know what Braga was smoking when he wrote that final act. He was capable of writing the odd great episode but he really needed to have his worst excesses reined in (“um, Brannon, just…NO.”)
 
My list of what I call the absolute worst episode of each show...


"AND THE CHILDREN SHALL LEAD" - the worst episode of TOS. By a country mile. And who thought it was a good idea to have kids jacking off the air?

"Sub Rosa" - to think, this episode came from the only female member of the writing staff of TNG... who was also the head writer of that season. Wow... just, wow.

"PROFIT AND LACE" - I echo Oddish's post with this one.

"FURY" - there's a few episodes that spring to mind, but this is the only one that actively damages a lead (former lead, in this case) character. I don't have the same level of hatred of "FURY" as... some people on this board do. But I definitely consider it the worst of VOYAGER.

"PRECIOUS CARGO" - the plot is already bad enough, but the casting choice just sinks this to a level where even "THESE ARE THE VOYAGES..." is above it.
 
When you really look at it, you see the pure lack of effort regarding the supposed future of TATV. No one asked: "What will these characters look like in six years? What rank will they be? Will they be doing something else? Will they still need to haul MACO's?
And we know the answer.

Shran had a daughter with the Aenar Jhamel and then faked his death.

T’Pol wears more makeup than ever.

Archer is still bringing up the Xindi. And has regressed and comes off irritated at T’Pol again.

Hoshi and Mayweather at best peaked at junior lieutenant; Captain Hernandez calling her one pipped helmsman lieutenant in the Klingon forehead arc does makes it canon that the one pip can be applied to lieutenants. And the ranks of Mayweather and Hoshi were never mentioned in the episode.

Oh, and the bridge and the uniforms get an update.

And that’s it.

It's like they wrote a 2155 story and then just moved it ahead 6y, for the same no-reason reason as why they chopped five years off Riker's age... and since Jonathan Frakes was in his 50's by then, he was not passing for 35.

Those that have written stories that suggest possible futures (TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT) or general foreshadowing - like how VOY episode “Before and After” foreshadowed the Krenim - weren’t the ones writing the finale.

If the finale was left in the hands of anyone else, they would have at least incorporated some of the future elements from the ENT episode “Twilight” (promotions, greying hair/different hair styles, T’Pol in a Starfleet uniform, changed personalities) into that episode.

Here is my biggest gripe with TATV, and this might be controversial or just my own weird quirk. The biggest emotional beat was Trip and T'Pol making peace with the loss of their daughter. That if Terra Prime hadn't done the process the way they did she would have been viable not died. That is a devastating loss. And then, next episode, "Eh, 6 years have gone by and that relationship is over." We're going to end the last episode with a big dramatic loss and then it never comes up again. No, fuck that. That's poor writing and ignoring character development for the sake of the status quo.

The daughter only died because the show got cancelled. She was supposed to have lived if the show continued

Interestingly, Michael Piller had written for the VOY two parter "Basics" that Seska's child was supposed to have died as a punishment for Seska, but was overruled by Berman because it was in "bad taste".

do we know the names of the rest of the NX class beyond Enterprise and Columbia?

It was intended to be NX-03 Challenger, NX-04 Discovery, NX-05 Atlantis, NX-06 Endeavour (T’Pol’s ship in the novels), and NX-07 Intrepid. While it was intended to be only seven NX class ships with only 3 of that class surviving, the novels suggest there’s more. So its entirely possible that an NX-09 Avenger was in the prime universe like in the mirror universe.

But when you look it up on Memory Beta you see some registries share certain names (NX-03 for both Challenger and Excalibur, NX-04 for was Discovery and Constellation, NX-05 for both Atlantis and Slayton, NX-06 for both Endeavor and Defiant, NX-07 for both Lexington and Intrepid)

The head canon I'm working with is that United Earth Starfleet intentionally produced ships with the same registries but different names to confuse the Romulans during the war.

It would also explain why no one on Voyager questioned the USS Dauntless having the registry NX-01A, as there was a Dauntless NX-01 operating alongside an Enterprise NX-01 at the time.
 
It's popular conjecture that the first six NX-class starships were named in the order of the six NASA Space Shuttle orbiters.

NX-01 Enterprise
NX-02 Columbia
NX-03 Challenger
NX-04 Discovery
NX-05 Atlantis
NX-06 Endeavour

The Mirror Universe didn't follow this naming pattern and called its NX-05 the Avenger but in our universe the naming template would be one that I could see the United Earth Starfleet following.
 
The daughter only died because the show got cancelled. She was supposed to have lived if the show continued

Interestingly, Michael Piller had written for the VOY two parter "Basics" that Seska's child was supposed to have died as a punishment for Seska, but was overruled by Berman because it was in "bad taste".
Too bad that wasn't used again with this episode. Instead, their relationship is a footnote. Ridiculous.
 
It would also explain why no one on Voyager questioned the USS Dauntless having the registry NX-01A, as there was a Dauntless NX-01 operating alongside an Enterprise NX-01 at the time.


Ae you referring to the production staff?


Hoshi and Mayweather at best peaked at junior lieutenant

How do you know this?
 
Interestingly, Michael Piller had written for the VOY two parter "Basics" that Seska's child was supposed to have died as a punishment for Seska, but was overruled by Berman because it was in "bad taste".

Proof that even a stopped clock is right sometimes.

If the finale was left in the hands of anyone else, they would have at least incorporated some of the future elements from the ENT episode “Twilight” (promotions, greying hair/different hair styles, T’Pol in a Starfleet uniform, changed personalities) into that episode.

Someone competent, in other words.

T’Pol wears more makeup than ever.

Archer is still bringing up the Xindi. And has regressed and comes off irritated at T’Pol again.

Hoshi and Mayweather at best peaked at junior lieutenant; Captain Hernandez calling her one pipped helmsman lieutenant in the Klingon forehead arc does makes it canon that the one pip can be applied to lieutenants. And the ranks of Mayweather and Hoshi were never mentioned in the episode.

I prefer...

The Enterprise D Holodeck, 2371. Riker is setting up his holosimulation.

RIKER: "Computer, create a replica of the Enterprise NX-01 bridge, 2161."

The bridge appears.

RIKER: "Good. Set time index, one day before the official founding of the Federation."

The familiar faces of Archer and Trip appear, surrounded by strangers. They include a Vulcan and a Tellarite.

RIKER: "Whoa... leave Archer and Tucker, remove all other characters." (it happens) "Display biographical information on all personnel who served on the bridge of Enterprise NX-01 from 2151 to 2161."

The information appears. Riker highlights several names. As of 2161, T'Pol is now captain of the Endeavor, NX-06. Reed is now in charge of weapons development at Starfleet. Sato is teaching Xenolinguistics at the fledgeling Starfleet Academy. Mayweather is first officer on the NX-03 Challenger. And Dr. Phlox has returned to his family on Denobula.

RIKER: "Computer. Put highlighted personnel in as bridge crew, as they appeared during their tenure on Enterprise."

COMPUTER (Majel voice): "Simulation will no longer be historically accurate."

RIKER: "Acknowledged." (the indicated characters appear) "Now, project a period appropriate uniform on me." (it appears) "Good. Now run program from..."

He gives the date and time, and the holosimulation runs from there.
 
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If Riker program the holodeck that way, they could do like they did in Tribbles and Tribblelations and have Kirk, Animated Kirk, Sisko and Janeway there together.
 
Or Janeway, Kira Nerys, Troi, Seven of Nine, Kamala, and Minuet there together. Maybe switch Troi out with Leah Brahms when he gets married to Troi and hands over the program to Geordi at his bachelor party.
 
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It's popular conjecture that the first six NX-class starships were named in the order of the six NASA Space Shuttle orbiters.

NX-01 Enterprise
NX-02 Columbia
NX-03 Challenger
NX-04 Discovery
NX-05 Atlantis
NX-06 Endeavour

The Mirror Universe didn't follow this naming pattern and called its NX-05 the Avenger but in our universe the naming template would be one that I could see the United Earth Starfleet following.
That was NX-09.

https://ent.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x19/inamirrordarkly2_821.jpg
 
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