Is Starfleet Military?

[JesterFace]

Military or not, what is military in the 24th century?
People of today might view Starfleet as military but does Starfleet see it as such in the future?

 

[Oddish]

...

Whether the MACO's still exist or not, they are a purpose-trained fighting force (the descendants of the Navy SEAL's of today), just as the Defiant was a purpose built warship. The closest thing we saw to MACO's in the 24th century Federation was the non-canon Hazard Team on Voyager and later the Enterprise E. And it took not one but two existential threats to the Federation to even bring the Defiant class into general production, and as far as we know there still are no MACO's or Hazard Teams. That is not a military mindset.

 

[Jedman67]

Just like most real-world military forces.

Not at all.
RW military has a stronger focus on combat even there is total peace.

 

[Prometheus59650]

There's a fundamental difference between having a force that can protect you in a military fashion, as needed, and having a militaristic philosophy that governs all aspects of that force. They're not inherently the same thing.

I think this is the element that bears note. When we look at our own militaries, a lot of us think of them as units of protection and power projection because that's all this world needs. The planet is mostly explored and there are other independent systems to do that here. Scientific discovery? Same thing.

Trek? Every exploration ship can't be an Oberth or none of them would make it back. These people have to be explorers and scientists, and they have to know how to fight. Their ships have to be ready to explore and do hard science and fight.

Starfleet is military, but it's not solely military; it's one prong of what they do.

Then again, do we ever hear about General Order 24 outside of "A Taste of Armageddon"? I always suspected that Kirk was making that order up, in order to frighten the Eminians. They'd have no way of knowing it was a fake order...

I don't think it was. Scotty's message to the Eminians felt very much like protocol; like he'd memorized the recommended response from the manual.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't think it was. Scotty's message to the Eminians felt very much like protocol; like he'd memorized the recommended response from the manual.

Or perhaps he was simply picking up on Kirk's cues.

 

[Silvercrest]

You know, it’s almost as if the franchise contradicts itself on occasion throughout its 56 year run…

Kirk: Yes.
Spock: No.
Kirk: Yes.
Spock: No.
Kirk: Yes. I love Italian. And so do you.

 

[Prometheus59650]

Or perhaps he was simply picking up on Kirk's cues.

Then I think he'd have quite the intuition to take Kirk yelling "General Order 24 in two hours...in two hours."

To...

"All cities and installations on Eminiar Seven have been located, identified, and fed into our fire-control system. In one hour and forty-five minutes the entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed."

That's quite a reach.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Kirk: Yes.
Spock: No.
Kirk: Yes.
Spock: No.
Kirk: Yes. I love Italian. And so do you.

Yes.

 

[Tallguy]

You know, it’s almost as if the franchise contradicts itself on occasion throughout its 56 year run…

Sometimes throughout a 46 minute episode.

 

[Oddish]

Good one.

 

[The Wormhole]

Two pages in and I see we've already hit all the relevant talking points. I look forward to the next thirty where they get repeated ad nauseum.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Then again, do we ever hear about General Order 24 outside of "A Taste of Armageddon"? I always suspected that Kirk was making that order up, in order to frighten the Eminians. They'd have no way of knowing it was a fake order...

No, Kirk did not make that up, as Scotty responded to it by first moving the Enterprise out of orbit (and range of Eminiar's weapons), and he says:

"All cities and installations on Eminiar Seven have been located, identified, and fed into our fire-control system. In one hour and forty five minutes."

To Anan: "The entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed."

He understood what General Order 24 meant. It was not a bluff, but an offensive measure Starfleet vessels can employ when necessary. That's not the kind of power given to an exploration-above-all-else organization.

 

[Tallguy]

Two pages in and I see we've already hit all the relevant talking points. I look forward to the next thirty where they get repeated ad nauseum.

We hit General Order 24 earlier than I expected.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Two pages in and I see we've already hit all the relevant talking points. I look forward to the next thirty where they get repeated ad nauseum.

 

[Greg Cox]

Kirk: "I'm a soldier, not a diplomat."

Just to hit all the squares on the "Is Starfleet military" bingo card.

 

[NCC-73515]

See also:
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/is-starfleet-a-military-organization.308636/
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/starfleet-is-a-space-navy-military-fleet.286724/
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/starfleet-as-the-military.284759/
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/why...-the-idea-of-starfleet-being-military.282470/
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/starfleet-military-or-not.269242/
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/starfleet-is-not-a-military-organization-peak-performance.261796/
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/is-starfleet-a-military-or-not.253804/
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/a-military-star-fleet-and-uespa.214783/

Read those first

 

[Oddish]

Two pages in and I see we've already hit all the relevant talking points. I look forward to the next thirty where they get repeated ad nauseum.

But that's the fun part, saying the same thing again and again and again... but in subtly different ways!

I'd be willing to bet that there's also 20 years worth of other oft-discussed topics: Tuvix, Harry Kim's collar, etc.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The closest thing we saw to MACO's in the 24th century Federation was the non-canon Hazard Team on Voyager and later the Enterprise E.

I like to think that upon the formation of the Federation, most of the MACOS became Starfleet Marines.

You know, like Colonel West.

And the guys in blue in ST V.

 

[fireproof78]

The biggest question I still have is why is there this strong objection to Starfleet in a military role? It's not the military is always running around killing everyone, but also supporting scientific endeavors, engineering projects and community supports. The weird anti-military strain of thought strikes me as very much stereotyping military service. There's more to it that that, just like there is more to Starfleet than just fighting or threatening to blow stuff up.

 

[Mudd]

Starfleet was a military organization in TOS.

Consequently, it plays somewhat more as a military organization in SNW than in the 1987-2005 era Trek shows.