NX Class Wartime Upgrades...?

[Redshirt214]

So I'm working on writing up something for a one-shot rp about the Earth Romulan War, set aboard one of twelve NX class ships.

Their ship (NX-10 Artemis) would have some wartime upgrades on it, something along the lines of splitting the difference between what Drexlers refit and EC Henry's take are. The addition of upgraded hull armor, I think, is the most obvious, or possibly some weak shields? I really like the idea of having permanently deployed phase cannons, which is something both Drexler and EC Henry proposed in their designs. However, I'd like to know what layout you all would suggest would be idea for the phaser turrets? I think cannon says the NX-01 has 3, but of course the VFX dept never followed that and I have no idea what Doug's original or refit is supposed to have in either number or layout. I also sort of like the idea of the phase cannons firing bolts rather than beams, as in the ISS Avenger... it seems more "war time" to me, and would also correspond to the "proximity blasts" used in TOS.

I am also thinking of working up a technobabble reason to explain the whole TOS "fought with nuclear weapons" line. My current thinking is torpedoes that combine the function of spatial & photonics torpedoes somehow (interchanging warheads, perhaps?) that would replace both during the war as the NX-01 was still carrying both during it's 4th season. I imagine standardizing on one type of weapon throughout the fleet would be advisable, and I could even see more nuclear\spatial torpedoes being used more often during the war to conserve antimatter, which would after all be needed to fuel starships (and maybe better used in that capacity). The other thought I had was similar, but perhaps with the idea that the torpedoes were redesigned during the war to have a dual nuclear-antimatter warhead, with one of the warheads being used to punch through shields (not sure if the nuke or the antimatter would be the better option there).

I also rather like the idea that some of the NX ships might be equipped differently internally, with more specialized equipment to support larger formations. Perhaps some would have more sensors, another would be designed more as a "flagship" with a fleet command center and admirals quarters, and another could have more space allocated to hospital beds or troop space for MACOs (though I guess they also have Franklin dedicated to that role, too). I'm thinking these ships would be the battleships of their day, hence the limited numbers.

I'd also be interested in what you guys think about some of the NX class being built by non-Humans? Is the war still to early in the timeline for something like that to happen? I kind of think that Earth would need more than two dry-docks to build a large number of ships, and was considering that the Tellarites (they always strike me as natural born engineers, perhaps because they are always grumpy, but maybe I got that from cannon somewhere?) might have been willing to build some ships on contract? They are the only other race to use the saucer and nacelle (albeit, vertical) design cue...

In any case, I'd be interested in what wartime upgrades everyone thinks the NX ought to get, those that don't go through a major refit but got minor upgrades instead.

 

[Richard Baker]

I really like this idea. In terms of enhancements maybe take some retrofits from the generational NX in "E2" as well.
The NX and NX Refit are explorer type vessels with the refit addressing some of the shortcomings of the original design. I think the basic ship design would stay the same but additional weapons would be added (external hardpoints) with power conduits feeding from the original warp core and protected by added armour plating.
This is a wonderful project, looming forward to seeing it progress!

 

[mithril]

the NX-01 originally had enough parts to install 3 phase cannons in "silent enemy" (presumably all the ones that were aboard when they left dock early in "Broklen Bow") but there is no reason why once they made it back to earth at the end of "Shockwave Pt2" that they wouldn't have had more installed. (i've also generally assumed that the original weapons ports design had the cannon turrets on a sliding rail so it could deploy out the top or bottom of the ship as needed.)

by the start of season 3, they are explicit in the NX series being much more heavily armed. the NX-02 Columbia had twice as many torpedo decks ("ventral and dorsal" so presumably they mirrored the existing ones of the NX-01 on the top of the saucer), and had "pulsed phase cannons" instead of standards. which IMO probably would have been incorporating that overload thing that the NX01 had been doing with its cannons since "Silent enemy", but in a safer more reliable form. the visual effects seem to be about the same. (i figure the 'pulse phase cannon' tech cycles the energy levels between the normal and 'overload' power levels several times per second, allowing them to get the higher potency with less chance of the dangerous feedback the NX-01 experienced.)

as far as the 'atomic weapons' thing, i've generally assumed that spatial torpedoes are thermonuclear in nature, with variable yield warheads so you can dial their destructive levels to a minimum if needed. (basically they'd be laser induced fusion, no plutonium required. so to get a lower bang, you'd load less deuterium fuel into the warhead.) and that Photonic torpedoes were still too new and experimental in earth starfleet so most of the ships involved didn't have them.

this is pretty much the tack that the novels took.. only the NX class carried Photonic torps, it was too resource intensive to fit them to anything else during the romulan war. in fact the NX class itself was subject to that.. they took years to build, and you could build 2 Intrepid Types using the same resources, or 3 Daedalus class ships, so they focused on the deadalus class, which was an older design which could be given a warp 4 engine and up to date tactical systems and still built fast. in the novels they only built 6 NX class ships, which tended to be employed like battleships as the flagships of fleets. only about half made it through the war. but they built several hundred Daedalus class ships. NX construction restarted after the war, with the columbia refit occurring once the Federation formally was created (in part, the new hull extension was added to help house the shields and tractor beams they were getting from the vulcans and andorians respectively, though there were teething problems getting these all to work together right)

 

[Redshirt214]

My thinking was that the Intrepid type was a exclusively pre war, Warp 4 Design. It’s visually, and almost literally 1/2 an NX, so I don’t think it would be the sort of thing that you’d build in a war. I agree that they would take less time to build, but for example they seem to have two torpedo tubes to Enterprise’s four. I imagine they’d be based on the tech pioneered by the Franklin, only scaled up to a full sized ship vs a prototype. That would also be in line with the WW2 carrier naming scheme.

I’m of two minds about the Daedalus, as I could see a case for them being prewar ships, or war build ships. Its hard to envision the desk models we’ve seen on screen as ships of the NX era, but plenty of fan interpretations have sleeked them up to fit the aesthetic. They definitely seem less developed than the NX.

I could see them being built more as escort ships en mass during the war. They’d be something like the Flower Class corvettes, lightly armed ships designed to ward off attacks on freighters, and would be converted into survey ships post war. They’d be designed to free up real warships for fighting, vs shepherding transports bound for Earth colonies.

Do we know when Utopia Planetia was brought online? If there were more drydocks over Mars, I think there’d be justifiable for upping the production numbers of the NX. I assume that the standard Romulan ship is equal to a Vulcan ship of the same period, so I’d think once fighting began in earnest you’d want to try and build ships to match. Presumably the Andorians and Tellarites would be helping Earth fight, and there’d be other starships besides the NX that would see Combat.

This is what I’ve had written down thus far for major Earth starships during the War:

NV class:

NV-01 Intrepid
NV-02 Lexington
NV-03 Yorktown
NV-04 Saratoga

NX Class:

Block 1:

NX-01 Enterprise
NX-02 Columbia
NX-03 Challenger
NX-04 Discovery
NX-05 Atlantis
NX-06 Endeavor

Block 2:
NX-07 Inspiration
NX-08 Pathfinder
NX-09 Independence
NX-10 Artemis
NX-11 Buran
NX-12 Burya

Franklin is a MACO ship, so maybe she’s MACO-01, and exclusively under their command? I figure the Warp Deltas are probably retired by this point.

I am very much adapting the novels idea of having the Kobayashi Maru be the inciting incident of the war, and in keeping with Trek mirroring real life I think NX-03 Challenger is going to be the first starship lost in combat in that incident, live on holovid...

 

[David cgc]

While I'm fond of the "NV" designation for the Intrepid-type (I think I might've been one of the first people to suggest it way back when, but I don't think the board goes back that far so I can't check to see if anyone else used it here first; it's a fairly obvious guess, though I'm surprised "NW" or "NY" were never suggested), the new Utopia Planitia sourcebook for the Star Trek Adventures RPG has a different theory, calling the Intrepid-type "FX" class and the Warp Delta "DX" class (pre-Federation Daedalus class ships have a really weird registry scheme in the book that doesn't fit at all with the NX-01 format).

My speculation is that the Franklin was heavily modified "EX" class (the book doesn't contain any information on ships from the Kelvin movies, even stuff that's pre-split, thanks, licensing), since the sourcebook goes with the interpretation that the Intrepid-type was a spin-off of the NX-class, using many of the same components developed for it, but in a more compact, stripped-down, lower-cost ship (though it suggests that unlike, say, the Nebula, the Intrepid-type launched after it's parent-class). So, if the Franklin was supposed to be the first Earth ship to reach warp 4, and it wasn't the class ship (according to computer screens made for the movie), my theory is that it's a slightly older starship class, and the Franklin itself was modified for engine testing, and those giant disproportionate warp nacelles aren't what it was launched with.

I guess the big question though would be, if the FX-class and NX-class are such close siblings, why are there eight letters between them? Maybe the Warp 5 project just picked "NX" since it sounded coolest, and it was far enough ahead of Starfleet's most recent ship class that they'd be sure newly-developed Warp 2 or 3 starships wouldn't overtake it before the NX-01 was ready, so they couldn't get in a position where their newest ship had a lower letter of the alphabet than some older designs.

 

[Redshirt214]

So I'm not much of an artist, but this is what a rough idea of what I'm thinking of for the standard NX class weapons load out:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CArge44dwuEUbESv1z8VcjJbATT6ZEVG/view?usp=sharing

Dorsal views I for some reason could not find a decent image to edit... ah well. Anyways, this kind of load out would give an NX something like 10-11 phase cannons and 10 torpedo tubes?

I actually quite like what Rekkert did way back when with the NX being a little more TOS and the deflector moved to something more pod than secondary hull. But I think that might be more a post-war thing, I imagine that wartime NX class ships would be closer to the NX-02 Columbia, but with key vitals plated over ala the refit. I really like the idea of them being possibly linked by some kind of exterior ring on the ships hull ala later phaser strips, only in this case it's more like an armored power conduit linking them.

In terms of interiors, I am wondering what if any changes might be made to accommodate more of a war vs a exploratory mission? Initially I was thinking these ships would have more quarters set aside for either command staff or more medical bays. Now I'm not sure that, what with up gunning and rearming the ships, there'd actually be room left. Of course, having the Phase Cannons outside the hull and always out would at least free up internal volume they'd otherwise be taking up.

I much prefer NV to FX for Intrepid... "FX" ought by rights to be Franklin's designation if anything. I actually don't think her engines are too disproportionate, they are big but then she's probably like a 75% scale prototype herself, and I do like that they strongly look like those of the Warp Delta. Which is they are "DX", then the Franklin being "FX" would make sense. Then the Intrepid could be something else... "IX"? The is the "N" in "NX" stand for "N"terprise? I only somewhat kid...
Of course we know Jeffries would be on the side of N(X) since he based the registries on aircraft designations. Hey maybe we split the difference and make her the FV Intrepid.

 

[FederationHistorian]

I am also thinking of working up a technobabble reason to explain the whole TOS "fought with nuclear weapons" line.

Spatial torpedoes are supposed to be able to carry a nuclear yield. Presumably, Starfleet went with antimatter warheads for the Xindi mission because it was more advanced, and general anti-nuclear sentiments on Earth.

Its also worth noting that Romulans as of TOS has nuclear weapons of their own.

I'd also be interested in what you guys think about some of the NX class being built by non-Humans?

Coridan is known for making warp 7 seven, and is said as much in ENT S1. And Cordian was in talks to join the Coalition of Planets, as well as under the influence of the Vulcan High Command prior to the Syrranite Reformation. So, Coridan building the NX refit, which is a warp 7 ship, makes sense. The novels even suggest that Coridan is a target of the Romulan Star Empire in the lead up to the war.

Coridan also being long time trade partners with the Orions, and Andorians being forbidden from having any presence on Coridan (if there are Andorians in Starfleet at this time) could factor into NX refit development.

I’m of two minds about the Daedalus, as I could see a case for them being prewar ships, or war build ships. Its hard to envision the desk models we’ve seen on screen as ships of the NX era, but plenty of fan interpretations have sleeked them up to fit the aesthetic. They definitely seem less developed than the NX.

The NX class was supposed to be a Daedalus class ship, before TPTB changed it. It makes sense the Daedalus class interiors are the same albeit smaller (think Defiant class), and its uses the same weapons. But regardless if its length is 100m or 200m or a different measurement in between, the Daedalus class is definitely smaller than an NX class ship. Meaning its easier to build in large numbers.

Do we know when Utopia Planetia was brought online?

It existed, but wasn’t as developed as seen in VOY and PIC. Rapid starbase development and shipyard development likely occurs due to the war. This would probably go for Utopia Planetia, Oakland shipyards, Jupiter Station, and any colony outside the Sol system.

 

[publiusr]

I think the NX types were quite rare—a secret project type craft compared to the Daedalus…that likely still had lasers, atomics…etc.

 

[Richard Baker]

Not so secret considering the fanfare we saw during it's launch in the first episode.

The NX represented the cutting edge of current technology at the time and took a long time to build. Daedalus class ships were smaller and using established technology. I could see them fielding three or so in the time it takes for an NX, but with newer weapons upgrades and perhaps a dedicated reactor just for them while keeping the drive systems stock for simplicity and ease of construction

 

[Redshirt214]

Do we know how long an NX class takes to build? I estimated about a year, under the assumption something like a Deadalus class ship would take only a couple months at most to build, and possibly a lot less if they were mass produced ala WW2 era naval ships.

I had quite forgotten about Jupiter Station, but with it, Mars, and Earth I could see the maximum output of the ships being maybe 3-4 per build cycle? Of course with resource limits there'd be less than that, but I could see Mars & Jupiter having an NX size dry dock each, and Earth having two (Warp 5 Complex & Columbia dry dock).

Here's some back of the hand ideas of the progress of NX armament over time:

NX-01:
6x Phase Cannons (3 Dorsal, 3 Ventral)
6x Torpedo Tubes (4 Foreward, 2 Aft)

NX-02:
8x Pulse Phase Cannons (4 Dorsal, 4 Ventral)
8x Torpedo Tubes (4 Dorsal, 4 Ventral)

Wartime NX:
10x Pulse Phase Cannons ( 5 Dorsal, 5 Ventral)
10x Torpedo Tubes (8 Foreward (4 Dorsal & 4 Ventral), 2 Aft Ventral)

Thus the Wartime NX has about twice the firepower of the NX-01, largely by dint of sacrificing non-combat spaces & systems. I like the symmetry of numbers, as you can see. I imagine on the ventral side of the NX-01 you have the first three weapons installed as initially mentioned in cannon, with two cannons forward and one aft. This would be mirrored on top later on, with the squares people speculate are plasma cannon ports on the upper "hood" having phase cannons fitted later on. Maybe the plasma weapons even stick around for a while after the phase cannons are first installed. Then there'd be a final cannon fitted aft... somewhere. Those darn booms seem to really mess up firing arcs!

On Columbia the cannons are arranged closer to the way you see on the 1701A in terms of layout, with one cannon on each carinal direction on top and bottom of the saucer. Also with four new tubes added inside the dorsal "hood" facing forward and deleting the ventral aft tubes. These would be reinstated during the war, and a new five cannon layout ventrally and on the dorsal in more of a star shape.

I also did a quick & dirty sketch of what a phase cannon turret (non retracting type) would look like:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1og78eaOHXvfRPCN-VgQ3--sgXdgTxa0i/view?usp=sharing

I'm hardly Doug Drexler so please excuse the lack of quality.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Do we know how long an NX class takes to build? I estimated about a year

Its supposed to be a year. Columbia’s maiden launch was pushed back six months though due to engine trouble.

I think 12 - 18 months is a fair timeline for NX class construction.

 

[Deks]

Its supposed to be a year. Columbia’s maiden launch was pushed back six months though due to engine trouble.

I think 12 - 18 months is a fair timeline for NX class construction.

Yeah, but the NX-02 engine issues could have been a one time thing. Its possible that SF learned from that experience and haven't had such (or other issues) with subsequent NX class ships that were made (which could have taken then exactly 1 year... or less to build).

 

[Richard Baker]

Per shipyard. Get some additional orbital drydocks on line and the only limitation will be waiting for some of the more exotic components to be made...

 

[mithril]

as far as the weapons placement goes, i'd move the emplacement marked "A" from the bow to the aft, on the central module between the Nacelles. (what was supposed to be a field modulation unit)
we see the Enterprise fire phase cannon shots from that a few times in episodes, plus it would give the ship better coverage of its aft, since the saucer mounted guns would have a bit of a blindspot between the nacelles.

another thing you might want to consider is the NX-01 at least had mounting points for what appeared to be a pair of plasma cannons, one on either side of the deflector assembly. we see it use them during "Broken Bow" during the attack on the suliban base (specifically while they are capturing a suliban pod)

it's never shown or mentioned again, but the same visual effect is seen for the plasma cannons of the ECS Fortunate in "Fortunate Son" later that season:

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while plasma cannons are probably too wimpy to continue using during a war, i could see those mounts being used to fit some other weapon. either two additional phase cannons, or perhaps some more experimental system. that said, perhaps it could retain the plasma cannons, and they're just higher yield models. (the fortunate's ones were said to be "low yield" plasma cannons) the Mirror Universe version of the NX class seems to have retained the plasma cannons, so perhaps there is some benefit for having them. (you might want to look at continuing mission's expanded weapons types article, as a way to give phase cannons (phasers) and plasma cannons slightly different effects for flavor. if i'm remembering my traits right, in it plasma would basically be good for inflicting damage over time to a target.

 

[Airmandan]

I always figured the Daedalus class ships where the Liberty ships of their era. A common design that could be sent to multiple shipyards and have separate part manufactured and put together elsewhere. Since they're a much more modular design that would aid in their being manufactured in greater numbers.

 

[mithril]

pretty much how the novels treat them. they were chosen because they could be built faster than anything else. personally i figure that they probably simplified the design further, producing the "ball and tin can" design Sisko's model depicted, to speed up production further.

(interestingly, the original USS Daedalus was built as a testbed for an ion reactor based warp system.. which failed spectacularly. there are two whole novels about it and the fallout. Daedalus and Daedalus's Children by Dave Stern, in 2003 and 2004)

 

[Redshirt214]

I think that for my Far Trek conversion, I'm going to stat the NX class thusly:

NX Class:
Top Speed: Warp 5
Cruise Speed: Warp 4
Impulse: F3
Armor: (Shield Rating 1)
Armament:
6 x Torpedo Tubes (Weapons Rating 2)
8 x Phase Cannons (Weapons Rating 2)

What are the exact lines about the Columbia's weapon load out? Do they actually say she has more torpedo tubes or is that inferred from dialogue that more generic like "she has twice the firepower of Enterprise"?

 

[Redshirt214]

Based on what people have said for weapons emplacements, I am thinking the following must have been (or become) pretty much the standard for the NX class, with the NX-01 having the full weapons fit for the wartime period by the time at which the series ends.

The six ventral torpedo tubes visible on the NX-01 model are retained, the some or all would have been outfitted with Photonics. You'd retain the two ventral phase cannons forward, and you'd also have two facing aft, mounted on the catamaran hulls. On the dorsal, you'd have two forward phase cannons on the "hood" section, and two aft mounted again on the catamaran hulls.

I figure that having the guns on the fat mid section must be necessary volumetrically, based on the fact both the torpedo tubes and phase cannons are in the center of the saucer. I'd rather leave the warp governor alone, if possible.

The Intrepid and Warp Delta class both had Phase Cannons in their on screen appearances, right? I'd hate to think the fleet was largely stuck with Plasma cannons & nukes, though that does seem the most likely given later references to it.

The Romulans at this point had disrupters, correct? I am thinking of making their ships more battleship like with slower speeds but much better shielding than Earth ships.