Are there 2 Klingon Homeworlds post-Undiscovered Country?

We were told in "Day of the Dove" that the worlds in Klingon space were generally poor and lacking in resources, hence their need for expansion. So we may surmise that they conquered in search of things like productive farmland and resources in general, and that their territory didn't have much in the way of dilithium or other precious minerals.

 

What I don't understand about the Klingons is this. Klingons have Time Crystals that are capable of aging plants, (Tenavik told Pike of their (poH qut) power capable of advance aging of plants. Why not use a poH qut to advance the aging process of plants that would produce plant-based foods for Klingons at a faster rate?

Could the Genesis Device have also been powered by a stolen Klingon poH qut? Given the Genesis Device did accelerate plant-based life on planets void of any life at all.

 

Stolen from the Sardakesh perhaps

 

Because the fictional trope of something existing in an accelerated-time bubble and growing to maturity or old age in seconds is stupid. Nothing exists in isolation. A plant can't grow without taking in water and nutrients from the outside environment. If the ecosystem is too poor in nutrients to sustain plant growth at normal speed, it will be even less able to sustain artificially accelerated plant growth. Any time-accelerated cropland will quickly be exhausted, and you'd have to ship in fertilizer, water, etc. from outside at a far greater pace to keep it fertile. It would worsen the problem, not fix it.

 

In TOS Friday's Child the Klingons were interest in topaline.


Captain's log, stardate 3497.2. Planet Capella Four. The rare mineral topaline, vital to the life-support systems of planetoid colonies, has been discovered in abundance here. Our mission, obtain a mining agreement. But we've discovered a Klingon agent has preceded us to the planet. A discovery which has cost the life of one of my crewmen.

MAAB: Laughter, Teer? Is not the Klingon an honoured guest also?
AKAAR: It was the Earth people who first bargained for our rocks.
MAAB: Is it not best to have two who bargain for the same goods?

 

Well, if Praxis was a moon orbiting the Homeworld, based on the helluva explosion seen in TUC, I would have to think the Homeworld took some serious physical damage too beyond just extensive environmental damage, right?

 

Possibly, but I imagine the same planetary defenses that would protect against orbital bombardment from enemy warships could also be directed against orbital debris. And the thing about orbital motion is that it's very fast sideways motion relative to the planet, so any debris wouldn't just fall straight down but would follow an elliptical path or at most spiral down out of orbit. So most of the debris would form a ring around the planet and only gradually fall in, giving time for ships and defense satellites to clear most of it out before impact.

I believe I read once that the intention of the makers of Star Trek Into Darkness was that Praxis had detonated decades earlier (perhaps due to accelerated fleet buildup in the wake of the Narada's arrival) and the reason Ketha Province was uninhabited was because it had been struck by debris from the explosion.

 

How did the loss of Praxis effect the rivers and oceans of the Klingon homeworld?

Scientists on Earth say that if we lost our Moon, the abscence of the Moons pull on the Earth would cause severe environmental issues.

I havent heard any remarks regarding the Klingon homeworld after Praxis exploded. Could the Klingons possibly be keeping the damage to the Klingon homeworld secret?

Could the Burn have finished off Praxis and the Klingon homeworld once and for all? Im not certain if the Klingons use dilithium in their power reactors on their planets, but if they do, then wouldnt the same disasterous effects occur in a planet's power reactor that happened on starships as a result of the Burn?

 

They didn't entirely lose Praxis; a fair chunk of it remained. And most of the mass that was blown out would presumably form into a ring around Qo'noS and eventually coalesce back into a nearly Praxis-sized moon over the next few million years.

That's contradicted by the dialogue in TUC itself. Both Spock and the Federation president said that the homeworld would be rendered uninhabitable within 50 years and would need to be evacuated. That was the entire basis of the detente discussion that drove the movie. Brigadier Kerla tried to conceal the truth from Captain Sulu at the start, but it didn't stick. You can't hide an astronomical event as big as a moon exploding. Anyone with a good enough telescope could see it from parsecs away.

We can surmise, though, that sometime within those 50 years, the Federation helped the Klingons find a way to keep Qo'noS habitable, so that they didn't have to evacuate it as they originally assumed.

 

Klingons have FTL capability and technology mostly on par with other species.
Even if your area of space is poor in resources (which is something I doubt), science and technology are capable of providing abundance and overcoming scarcity.
Heck, even today in real life, humanity doesn't have any real scarcity on Earth... we actually produce massive abundance, but limit access (create artificial scarcity) for the sake of money (in effect, our socio-economic system is the problem because its completely inefficient when it comes to management/distribution of Earth's resources).

But, Klingons are also a warrior like culture... and they also have a monetary based economy, and we've seen evidence of corruption in their government.
Plus, they got advanced technology from a failed inital invasion by the Hur'q... and this happened likely before they were ready for advanced technology (aka, before a large scale planetary social evolution could have happened - so the Klingons being distrustful of aliens thanks to initially being invaded, decided instead to become conquerors and push their pre-evolved mentality of battle and honor out into space).

Its also possible that powerful individuals within the empire simply want to preserve the status quo. Meaning, even if the Klingons DO have technology and the means to produce abundance, the people in power intentionally prevent this massive shift, as it might also entail moving away from the notion of violently expanding your empire and conquering alien species (heck in fact, I wouldn't be surprised that at some point after joining the Federation [post 24th century], the Klingons effectively [and finally] started undergoing a long awaited cultural evolution that a species might usually undergo along with advancing technology and science - thus for example giving rise to more Klingon scientists, engineers, doctors, etc. - other fields that have less to do with being a warrior).

As we've seen, in the Klingon culture even dating back to the mid 22nd century, people outside the field of battle were not exactly 'reveered'.
We have perhaps started seeing a bit more change in the 24th century though... but I suspect it wouldn't be until the 25th century that more changes would be seen.
Perhaps they finally joined the UFP in the 26th century as opposed to being just allies?

Plus we have evidence from DS9 that at least one Klingon used financing and money to undermine another house and gain power.
The corrupted people who sat on the Klingon Council probably implemented these (and other) methods to remain in power and preserve the current state of affairs.

 

That's contradicted by the dialogue in TUC itself. Both Spock and the Federation president said that the home world would be rendered uninhabitable within 50 years and would need to be evacuated.

I remember that part from TUC now. Did TNG dive into the relocation of Qo'noS

Is Kling the new Klingon home world?

 

Nope
Nope

 

TNG couldn't have done so, because TUC didn't come out until TNG's fifth season. "Unification" was done as sort of a teaser for the upcoming film. TNG therefore never referred to the Klingon homeworld as Qo'noS or Kronos; it was just "the Klingon homeworld" (the throwaway "Kling" in "Heart of Glory" was mercifully ignored afterward). It wasn't until DS9: "The House of Quark" that the name was first used on TV, and was equated with the Homeworld from TNG, ignoring TUC's assertion that Kronos would have to be evacuated. As I said above, we can surmise that the Federation found a way to repair the environment and render evacuation unnecessary, but this was never overtly mentioned. There is absolutely no reference in the Trek franchise to the Klingon homeworld being evacuated except in TUC.

 

in my headcanon, they shot a Genesis device there then left a Klingonadam and Klingoneve.

 

TNG therefore never referred to the Klingon homeworld as Qo'noS or Kronos; it was just "the Klingon homeworld" (the throwaway "Kling" in "Heart of Glory" was mercifully ignored afterward).

Therefore, we really don't know where the new Klingon homeworld was located after The Undiscovered Country based on the use of general wording, Klingon homeworld.

Was Starfleet involved with covering up the actual location of the new Klingon homeworld to keep the adversaries of the Klingons from taking advantage of the Klingon empires desolate state?

With the Orions having a large presence on the original Klingon homeworld, did the Orions also help relocate the Klingons to their new homeworld?

Venturing off into Disco for a moment, would the Orions know what happened to the Klingons after the Burn?

 

You missed my point. TNG didn't address the issue because most of it came out before TUC, but DS9 and Voyager both explicitly referred to the TNG-era Klingon homeworld as Kronos. TUC's assertions about Kronos needing to be evacuated were ignored. There was no "new" homeworld, just the same one throughout.

See, this is why I hate conspiracy theories. It's ridiculous to imagine a "cover-up" when it's far simpler and more straighforward just to assume that the scientists in 2293 were wrong about the necessity of evacuating Qo'noS. That's how it seemed immediately after the disaster, but further examination of the situation once things settled down more may have revealed that the damage was not nearly as bad as initially projected. That happens all the time when dealing with something as dynamic and complex as a planetary ecosystem, with countless variables that might not have been taken into account or modeled accurately the first time. You learn more as you gather data over time, and that often reveals things that couldn't have been known at the start of the process. So you often have to alter your initial assumptions.

Or, as I've been saying, it could be that Federation scientists figured out a way to repair Qo'noS's ecosystem so that it no longer had to be evacuated. They had fifty years to work the problem, after all -- plenty of time to find another way. It's like the Y2K bug -- experts predicted a serious problem coming up in the future, they worked hard to find ways to avert it, and they succeeded, so the predicted disaster never happened. Or it's like when I got a tumor in my left eye in high school. I was told I might lose the eye, at best, but luckily there was a cutting-edge experimental treatment that saved me. Predicted disasters can be averted if people use the time wisely to find solutions.

 

Praxis might have exploded ‘away’ from Qo'noS. The graphic (painting) depicted on the Excelsior view screen showed praxis exploding from one side only. I imagine that it would look like a half constructed ‘death star’ from that Star Wars film. I believe that over the proceeding years in order to protect Qo'noS the Klingons probably constructed an artificial moon using the remains of Praxis as a building frame so that they could stabilise the planets tides and weather patterns. The fact that Praxis had been cracked open and exposed in such a way would mean that the raw materials would be even more readily available to mine, and the moons core could have been used as a power source.

On the same subject, does anybody know where the Romulans made their new homeworld after the destruction of the Romulan sun or did they become a nomadic species? Perhaps they all moved to Vulcan? Of course, both Romulus and Remus were destroyed so the Remens would need a new homeworld too.

 

That would actually make things worse. If the mass blasts outward from the planet, then it will still have the same lateral orbital velocity. It'll still be in the same orbit, but with greater eccentricity, i.e. on a more elliptical path -- getting further out from the planet at apoapsis, but coming in closer to the planet at periapsis. So that would actually make the particles more likely to collide with the planet. (Imagine, say, pushing sideways on someone swinging on a swingset. It'll just make their swing more wobbly.)

The way to get something out of orbit entirely is to accelerate it forward. As it gains orbital velocity, it rises into a higher orbit, or leaves orbit entirely if it goes fast enough. But if you accelerate most of the moon's mass forward, then Newton's Third Law means that the big surviving chunk of Praxis will be decelerated and fall into a lower orbit. Which, again, could potentially make things far worse if it's decelerated enough for its orbit to decay.

It's highly implausible that a civilization at the Klingons' or Federation's level of advancement could artificially construct something massive enough to have a gravitational effect like that. Note how 80 years later in "Deja Q," the Enterprise struggled to move a much smaller asteroidal moon. (I suppose a Genesis device could potentially do it, given the magical abilities shown for it in TWOK, but Genesis was a political hot potato that was apparently outlawed, given how it was never referenced after TVH.)

Besides, the tide and weather patterns would eventually stabilize on their own once the mass of the moon debris settled into a ring around the planet. They'd be different from before, but they'd settle down over time. As with our current need to adapt to irreversible climate change, the goal would have to be to adjust to the new status quo, not try to recreate the old one.

It was the dilithium within the moon that exploded, so there's presumably none of it left. Although certainly the remains would be quite hot, so you could use it as a thermal energy source.

Picard season 1 seemed to indicate that they'd resettled on multiple worlds, and Discovery implied that they were essentially without a singular homeworld until they reconciled with the Vulcans and came together on Ni'Var (the planet formerly known as Vulcan).

 

How could you possibly cover up an entire planet with billions of people living there?

I don't think the presence of a diplomatic embassy constitutes "having a large presence."

What makes you think the Orions would be any more or less likely to know something that is almost certainly public knowledge?

In an Instagram post, PIC S1 showrunner Michael Chabon indicated that the Romulan Free State was the largest of several Romulan states established after the fall of the Star Empire and that its capital planet is called Vvalti. However there are apparently an unspecified number of smaller Romulan states as well.

Well, season one of Star Trek: Picard established that the Romulan Free State is the major post-supernova Romulan state, controlling the disabled Borg cube known as the Artifact in diplomatic cooperation with the Federation, and apparently having better relations and a more liberal legal regime while still being influenced by the surviving Tal Shiar and the Zhat Vash. Season three of Star Trek: Discovery established that some time between 2399 and 3069, the majority of the Romulan civilization emigrated back to Vulcan and formed a new reunified society, their world and polity renamed as Ni'Var. But Vulcan-Romulan Reunification hasn't happened yet as of PIC S2.

The status of the Remans is yet unestablished.