Spoilers ST Prodigy - StarShips & Technology Season 1 Discussion

Unfortunately that doesn't fully explain the appearance of the SNW Enterprise-nil in Picard.

Unless EACH individual series takes place in slightly different universes. But I digress, on to 1x14!

-The gang puts the Protostar into sleep mode. Is this analogous to how they found her in the first place? Did they clean up a bit before turning the lights off? How does one store antimatter in sleep mode? And they wake her up again without pressing a button this time… And fly her away in moments. I’m guessing sleep mode is more like leaving your phone on the counter for a while here.

- The Dauntless is in orbit basically the whole time, is actively looking for the Protostar, and finds nothing. Contrasting this with any number of times a crew is looking for a crashed shuttle or something, and can locate one due to its hull composition or whatever. Planets are big, I suppose.

- The map vaguely suggests they're in Beta Quadrant, close to the border with Delta. But maybe they’ve got the map upside down.

- It's the Erstwhile, jeepers! And she has a warp 4 engine even after all this time? Does interstellar commerce work okay in the 2380s at that warp factor? I think that guy who “collected” Data that one time had a ship with a top speed of warp three, so maybe lots of people don’t even clear warp five, environmental considerations be damned.

- Deuterium is still seen as a commodity of import, despite being literally the simplest possible isotope of the simplest possible element, and one relatively easy to find (or make, in Trek). The writers (notably in Voyager) glommed on early that deuterium is great fuel for fusion engines, and not how common it is to find or simple to extract from seawater. Remember “deuterium ore”?

- Neither Federation ship uses quantum torpedoes despite being arguably much more advanced than the average starship. OTOH neither was really out to cause significant damage, not that we know how much more damage a QT would cause. In any case, the Protostar must be in training mode if it’s that simple to butt-dial some mass destruction without even aiming.

- D’deridex class warbirds are seen here in their latest chronological appearance, following the opening of LDS. Would the Romulans keep their shiny newer Valdores closer to the front with the Alpha quadrant? Or does this just happen to be a patrol of older ships? Or are these warbirds still being produced following the Dominion War, where they were the ONLY warship class seen?

Mark

 

most of the privately owned freighters we see in TNG/DS9 seem to operate at those speeds. best i can figure is that anything faster is probably restricted in some way. either too expensive in those societies that still have traditional economies, or limited in access in places like the federation.
i'd imagine there are probably faster cargo ships around, but i'd guess that they probably belong to big shipping concerns.

as far as how shipping works.. we rarely hear about them carrying much in the way of perishable goods, so i'd guess that the long travel times probably aren't a huge issue. given the existence of synthesizers and replicators, i'd guess that interstellar shipping isn't really needed to support populations, and it is mostly moving luxury goods and industrial goods that can't be efficiently replicated.

 

The prime universe split into close parallel universes, where DSC and DSC branched off from it? Maybe ENT through VOG is the PU?

 

The kids literally buried the ProtoStar underneath a giant layer of snow in the middle of nowhere.

Planets are generally pretty big, so it's going to take time to do a detailed scan of every square meter of the planet and penetrate the surface as deep as possible to look for the ProtoStar.

That's assuming that Janeway and her crew would've realized that the USS ProtoStar was even on the planet and not somewhere else.

We also have slow Cargo Ships that move packages that take months.

Those are usually MUCH cheaper to hire than Over Night Air Shipments

Imagine the energy cost to ship a package at Warp 9 vs Warp 4 or slower.

The amount of energy you have to spend, divided by all your packages.

Spoiler: Warp Factor relative to Power Consumption scale

Spoiler: TNG-era Warp Scale relative to power consumption.

Spoiler: My variant of the Warp Scale that gets rid of the silly hand drawn curve to infinity past Warp 9 -> 10.

Remember the energy costs spike everytime they hit a new Warp Factor until they settle back down after they surpass it for a bit into cruise speeds.

The logistics and resource costs are probably #_# to get your stuff off planet and to another one at a reasonable speed.

 

We can use the chi thing to help make warp 3 or 4 practical for getting between distant planets in weeks rather than months or years, especially well-charted routes that are built to take advantage of the “prevailing winds,” so to speak.

Even so, Trek has been pushing that even low warp speed is blazingly fast compared to the published numbers for a while. Never mind the Kelvin movies, remember that LDS established a twelve-hour transit was a “long-haul warp” and was an unusual enough event to merit the crew getting a special day off. It’s not even a full day, plenty of them would be asleep or otherwise off-duty anyway for most of the twelve hours!

 

Yep. The times we do see it is when it has to be delivered in days or sooner and that gets the Enterprise involved (in TOS anyway) that has the Warp 7+ engines.

 

It was just a hologram of a Sombra class starship being shown alongside another hologram of a Galaxy class starship.

 

I posed this as a possibility that some TOS episodes do indeed take place in an alternate universe of sorts... especially those where Warp drive on TOS Enterprise was equivalent to 1000 Ly's per day (and again in ST:V where it was increased to about 10 000 Ly's per day - whic would seem like a doable increase over TOS days for UFP and application of what was learned with USS Excelsior TW drive from ST:II).

I would imagine the sleep mode is similar to how sleep mode works now. A phone today that goes into sleep mode doesn't technically shut off completely - it simply goes into standby... all it does is reduce power consumption to extremely low levels, but power consumption is still there - just at a negligible rate - and given the fact we are talking about M/AM reactions and insane levels of efficiency (which are standard for UFP), a ship could technically be placed into sleep mode and be left like that for a VERY long time.

Actually, if you have a look at the episode, the Dauntless arrived at the planet later than the Protostar.
I guess that the Dauntless crew had no reason to think the Protostar landed on the planet's surface and put into sleep mode.
I think what's usually done is that companion SF ships are searched for based on their unique signatures that are emitted while ships are fully powered (and we've seen UFP ships using low power modes to slip past sensors before - no reason to think something similar wouldn't happen here).

Sensor scans based on hull composition etc. tends to be implemented if a ship crash landed and there was a rescue operation. But given the fact the Dauntless crew are under the impression the Protostar was stolen, maybe they should have implemented this parameter into standard scans (or, because the ship was in low power mode and under the ice, it effectively 'blended' into the environment - just enough to mask its own signature).

The map could be presented in a different manner on screen... because if we're talking about the Beta Quadrant near the DQ border, then the Protostar either jumped into UFP space, or they had to have come from a different entry point (because majority of that angle is Romulan space... so, the Protostar would have to take the way around to gain entry to UFP space).

Depends on what the people with those kind of ships do.
I would imagine that since money is not really needed inside UFP (its usually implemented by individuals who engage in shadier practices because they don't go through official channels to transport certain goods that are considered 'contraband').

They also might be using slower warp factors so as to not necessarily arouse suspicion... and their regular dealings do not always allow them to make use of UFP starbases that tend to have a full range of sensors that could detect potential 'contraband' and demand that some 'inspections' are made.

Even in TNG, Okona had a problem with his ship (which was old) and was able to get some quick repairs in from ENT-D crew at the time... but I suppose he usually steers clear of Starfleet (when he engages in shadier practices).

Or it could be a commodity in that part of space where shadier practices ensue. When you pursue that kind of practice, your ability to use UFP starbases is limited as they might connect you to smuggling contraband, etc. so you can't get deuterium the standard way.
Plus, Okona isn't an engineer... so making Deuterium easily is not something he'd necessarily be able to do... though this kind of work would likely be done by automation. Its possible his ship is a very old style hulk that simply didn't get that technology... and getting it installed would have been 'expensive' from his point of view... and like I said, its possible he steers clear of UFP starbases intentionally due to his shady practices.

Like holo-Janeway mentioned in earlier episodes, its 'auto-targeting'... Jankom Pog does get to push the firing button.
Manual targeting is only used if auto-targeting was damaged/disabled.
As for lack of Quantum Torpedoes... yeah this bit is actually something of a missed opportunity. Its also possible that Photon Torpedoes continue to advance, so their capabilities would have been more than adequate for the job and would be still considered 'standard'.
Quantums might be present on both ships, but those aren't regularly used. There's also a question if quantums would have been installed on the Protostar (which is a science vessel).

However, for the ship to make it this easy to 'butt press' a photon torpedo to me says that the console in question was unlocked at the time because Pog was using it. He's not a fully trained SF officer, so maybe locking out weapons was not something he did at the time because he thought he might need them (plus he's a bit paranoid).

D'deridex class warbirds seem to be there as a Romulan 'staple ship'.
Its possible the Romulans change ship designs less often than SF does... and the Valdore class ships might be placed into other sections of the RSE... say the inner core section mainly which would venture outwards as needed.

The D'deridex class Warbirds we saw in Prodigy are likely fully upgraded, so they'd be able to go toe to toe with any modern ship.

In this sense, I don't see why SF would discontinue use of Galaxy class ships because its fully modular/upgradeable so it can just evolve with the times.

I can see UFP building a given number of ships of a certain class... and given there are over 150 member worlds as part of UFP, each of those would have their own construction facilities similar to Utopia Planitia (at least) and in orbit of the main planet in that star system (like Earth has orbital facilities and shipyards too).

In this sense, SF could EASILY make 1500 Galaxy class ships in a month or so throughout the UFP (by simply assigning 10 drydocks per shipyard in each start system to make a Galaxy class)... and just not produce more unless its for replacing destroyed/lost ships... and would upgrade existing ones in service.

It never made sense to me that SF and UFP (given their sizes) would only produce 12 Galaxy class ships... given the technology and size of UFP, nothing of the kind makes sense.

Same would apply to RSE... they probably saw value in D'Deridex class warbirds and used them as a 'staple starship' for decades... they could also still be in use in PIC... but the Tal Shiar took precedence in that series and likes to operate from small/deadly ships.

We have to keep in mind that ships like the Galaxy class are designed to initially last 200 years (though this estimate is always pushed forward because the ships can also be upgraded with the times... and with replicators/transporters, you can actually 'refresh' the infrastructure and frame of the ship with modern materials anyway over time - so the exact same ship made is say the late 24th century would look somewhat different by the 26th century and would be sporting contemporary technology to boot - additionally, it would also be able remain in service for another 200-400 years with refreshed frame/infrastructure... and so on and on - the Romulans might be using the same idea.

Even in the 32nd century, we were given indications that various classess of ships from 930 years ago are still in use... they've just been heavily upgraded over time (internally and externally) to leave them in service and fit with the times.
In this sense, I wouldn't be surprised if SF 'retires' a ship class for 50-100 years and then brings it out fully upgraded and externally modified to fit with the times.

For a ship to survive for 1000 years in active service would probably end up a record in its own right (and if it started as a say constitution class back then, it would still be a Constitution class in the 32nd century... just heavily changed over time to reflect modern technology)... because it would have to survive wars, border skirmishes, encounters with hostile races, etc.
Possible? Yes... difficult? I'd say so given that SF frequently encounters dangerous anomalies and unknowns frequently... but its possible.

 

I would say the split happened after First Contact and affected ENT going forward. Events happened near parallel but technological development was slightly altered.

I tend to view TOS as very much in a heightened reality from the rest of Trek. Everything about it is different, from warp speeds, to distances, to how technology works, and technology encountered.

 

That would be my favored theory.

 

Generally speaking, it works perhaps the best at the technical level and within the ridiculous time travel rules of Trek. I'm not totally sold on it, largely because I think it overcomplicates things. But, that's the way of Trek and such theories.

 

Yeah, TOS/TAS doesn’t hang with the rest of the franchise very well, it really is kind of its own thing.

 

And yet TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT branched off from it and used much of its distinctiveness just fine.

 

Indeed and even when it appeared in later Trek's there was a reliance on iconography and legend, rather than building off of concepts. In one episode I rewatched Warp 11 was a surprise but doable. The galaxy felt more strange and yet accessible. Later Trek just treated it as historical at best, oddities at worst.

 

More later, but the salient tech point this week is that Starfleet now has MICRO torpedoes with a variable yield (for their size?), which are both interstellar-range (probably?) and even at minimal yield seem boom-making enough to destroy an (unshielded) Protostar-class starship!

And here I was thinking the weapons on the Dauntless seemed a little underwhelming so far..!

Mark

 

Apparently Arik Soong “defected from the Federation”. Based on the time period, did he defect to the Romulans?

Dal is declared on sight to be a Soong protégés Augment, which implies others. “Most likely homo sapien blended with the most recessive traits of 26 species”, for seemingly 27 species total. Dr. Jago mentions Proto-Organian. The screen icons indicate Dal’s ingredients include: Human, Klingon, Vulcan, Andorian, Tellarite, Romulan, Reman, Bajoran, Cardassian, Son’a, Risian, Orion, Suliban, Ferengi, Gorn, Breen, Tholian, Kazon, Krenim, Hirogen, Vidiian, Species 8472, Maquis (such as… Bolian? Betazoid?), Dominion (Founder? Vorta? Jem’Hadar?), Xindi (which?), & Q (how? From Dr. Crusher’s scan of Amanda Rogers, maybe?). There are only 26 icons including human on the chart, so maybe Proto-Organian doesn’t have a logo? Or maybe, offscreen, the Q and the Proto-Organians have been determined to be the same beings on a genetic level?

Dal’s getting mind-reading from somewhere, (maybe the Reman genes?) but why the redundancy of three Vulcanian flavours or three exceedingly similar humaniforms (Earthnoids, Son’a, & Risians)? How do they get genes as presumably incompatible as Founders, 8472, Tholians, or Breen to blend together? Breen don’t even have blood! Dal’s Ferengi and Breen genes don’t seem to have given him the telepathic resistance of the four-lobed brain... yet. And why Kazon? The Borg didn’t even want them! Or is that a feature rather than a bug? It didn’t seem to slow the Borg down during their assimilation attempt on Dal, but maybe his creator(s) hoped it would?

On the subject of obscure people from the Delta Quadrant, Voyager’s MIDAS array messages in 2376 are the earliest known time that unscrupulous Alpha/Beta-based Soongian Science Scofflaws could get their hands on data about Delta Quadrant genetics, but if so Dal should be only eight in 2384, not a teenager. Eight years isn’t a lot of time to run scams with Nandi, plus get back from an Alpha/Beta lab to a distant Delta Quadrant mine. That’s a lot of “How??” piling up, and the answer is looking a lot like more time travel.

Did somebody try to make Temporal Cold War soldiers?

 

Arik's time as a geneticist was long before the Federation was even formed.
I don't think the chart is supposed to make sense. There's probably not much Homo sapiens in him, and they just put random logos on the screen without a real plan how to have it make sense. It's also not clear if that even is a Kazon logo.

 

I wonder how long you can fly with those Anti-Grav Suits that the Romulans are wearing.

That's got to be so much fun to fly.

 

I don't think there's a time limit on how long you can wear those suits considering how these things probably have built in life support systems and other technological goodies to extend the usability of the suits in question.

Minimal effects.
For example. Maglev trains can achieve high speeds, whereas vacuum maglev trains could be built to also achieve speeds of 4000 Miles per hour (ET3 system). The impact on the people riding inside those trains inside vacuum wouldn't be more than what a person experiences in a sports car (aka, no more than 1G).

In Trek, given the existence of inertial dampeners and micro thrusters, I'd imagine that the effects on a person inside a suit would be negligible, if not almost completely negated.