TMP- Which "version" and why?

[Lord Garth]

You guys are making me really want to watch the 2022 DE.

I like parts of the SLV that aren't anywhere else, but it also has that terrible unfinished set when Kirk's in the thruster suit. I had issues with the 2001 DE, but it's been two decades since I've seen it, so I don't remember the issues I had with it too well. So -- until I see the 2022 DE -- I'm going with the Theatrical Cut for now.

 

[Qonundrum]

OK folks, here's the disclaimer: My response is almost as sleep-inducing as the movie was for some back in 1979.

My vote is for the SLV, which stitches together every bits of filmed material - even the bit without the blue background so, oops, the scaffolding is visible but at the time it didn't matter because it was cool to see additional footage of Kirk taking the spacewalk in what was also a different looking outfit... to see that edition in proper widescreen should be sweet, even if it begs the question of when he changed space helmets.

The theatrical cut is what got released, which already was its own form of a stripped down version thanks to all the filmed left on the cutting room floor to be stitched back later as SLV for those important late-night viewings in 1982.

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(Oh yeah!)

The director's cut. On the plus side, it added proper exterior shots of VGER. The 4K shot of it is truly spectacular... but I'm skipping this from the 4K version because, on the minus side, they trimmed down a few too many scenes, and the replacement klaxon/alarm noises were utterly bizarre/downright annoying/rather laughable, which is impressive as I otherwise agree that the computer voice screeching the same condition incessantly was overkill. Yes, the ship is on red alert, you told us that 500 iterations earlier you stupid machine... That said, the pros just didn't outweigh the cons. It's easier to handle looping robovoice than the electronically altered sound of a goose in heat.


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Wish that had been filmed proper back in the day. as it added uncertainty to Spock's character as well as being thematic..

 

[Ssosmcin]

OK folks, here's the disclaimer: My response is almost as sleep-inducing as the movie was for some back in 1979.

My vote is for the SLV, which stitches together every bits of filmed material - even the bit without the blue background so, oops, the scaffolding is visible but at the time it didn't matter because it was cool to see additional footage of Kirk taking the spacewalk in what was also a different looking outfit... to see that edition in proper widescreen should be sweet, even if it begs the question of when he changed space helmets.

The theatrical cut is what got released, which already was its own form of a stripped down version thanks to all the filmed left on the cutting room floor to be stitched back later as SLV for those important late-night viewings in 1982.

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(Oh yeah!)

The director's cut. On the plus side, it added proper exterior shots of VGER. The 4K shot of it is truly spectacular... but I'm skipping this from the 4K version because, on the minus side, they trimmed down a few too many scenes, and the replacement klaxon/alarm noises were utterly bizarre/downright annoying/rather laughable, which is impressive as I otherwise agree that the computer voice screeching the same condition incessantly was overkill. Yes, the ship is on red alert, you told us that 500 iterations earlier you stupid machine... That said, the pros just didn't outweigh the cons. It's easier to handle looping robovoice than the electronically altered sound of a goose in heat.


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Wish that had been filmed proper back in the day. as it added uncertainty to Spock's character as well as being thematic..

You guys do know that the scene was fixed for the release of the SLV on the Directors Edition box set, right? It was the only tweak that they made to it. It looks really good. So if you're still on the fence on buying that box, you might wanna jump on it while it's still available. Because it's going to be the only place the SLV is going to be available.

 

[Firebird]

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Wish that had been filmed proper back in the day. as it added uncertainty to Spock's character as well as being thematic..

All but two shots in the script of the memory wall sequence were filmed. Robert Wise marked those in this script for being completed in post production. The camera reports for that sequence are pretty extensive, and they show that the full sequence could be put together if the OCN and the audio were found.

 

[Pauln6]

All but two shots in the script of the memory wall sequence were filmed. Robert Wise marked those in this script for being completed in post production. The camera reports for that sequence are pretty extensive, and they show that the full sequence could be put together if the OCN and the audio were found.

I was really hoping that they would release the existing footage even if without the sound because I would love to have a go at stitching together a version.

The DE has always been my favourite version, because it flows so much better right up until the final scene at V'Ger's brain, which still drags for me. That said, I always lamented the missing character scenes from the SLV so my dream was to do a fan edit, stitching the key SLV outtakes into the DE for a hybrid cut. I also lamented the fact that Grace Lee Whitney returned to the franchise but only appeared in the first third of the movie and then only in 3 scenes with almost no lines, so I fancied giving her a slack-jawed cameo during the V'Ger cloud scene.

Then lockdown happened and I jumped down a rabbit hole. Stitching in the key SLV scenes and extra lines (like the second 'viewer off') was fairly easy and took only about a week, just adding some background hum and adjusting lighting levels. I struggled finding an appropriate way to add Rand to the bridge scene so I started to look for alternatives. I learned how to use Deepfake tech, scraped around other episodes, movies, and even appearances in other shows for useable dialogue and managed to generate a scene with Kirk, McCoy, and Rand when they are watching Decker and Ilia.

Then I wondered if Kirk's airlock scene had any merit. It's soooooo slow, so I figured it might still work if he has someone else to talk to. So I took the existing footage, and added some extra dialogue. Spock has a different spacesuit but I figured that if I put someone else in his original suit, I could cover off quite a few discrepancies. So I stuck a CGI avatar of Rand in the suit, added a layer of Deepfake, located appropriate dialogue, vocoded some technobabble dialogue based on the early script, and manually created a (slightly shoddy) edit so that Spock passes through two apertures and tumbles back through the second one, to be met by Kirk and Rand. I even rotoscoped Kirk's original spacesuit over Kirk's two close ups from the DE.

In the end Rand had her own mini arc of about 8 extra minutes, created using dialogue from various TV appearances and a few vocoded lines. She reminisces about the old times when McCoy boards, suddenly remembers that the old times were terrifying when Kirk drags her inside V'ger, and ends up providing moral support to Kirk when he starts to doubt himself (as intended to be her original conceived role in TOS that was never realised).

I'm working on my final version, slightly delayed as I have no way to work with the 4k SLV yet. I might also see if it is possible to paste the TC versions of Kirk and McCoy in the officer's lounge but that looks like a LOT of work.

So, ultimately, my favourite version will be my version ;-P

 

[David Brown]

My vote went to the new 2022 Director's Edition.
The Special Longer Version is the one I was most familiar with. This is a case, like Star Trek II director's cut, where I am so used to those extended scenes, that even when I watch a different cut, my mind inserts them back in.
I'm still getting used to the sounds in the new cut (but they are an improvement) because it just jumps out to me as different. Given time and multiple viewings, the new release may become the norm and not stick out like that. I think overall, they did a really nice job and the film just feels more finished and polished now.

My ONLY regret - I went to the last Fathom Event theatrical showing in my area and the projector broke before it started. We were issued refunds and the manager apologized, but this remains one of only two Trek films I've not seen theatrically, and I tried!

 

[mb22]

Extending films with deleted scenes to create a 3 hour 'event' seems to have been done more than a few times in the 70s and 80s. Aside from TMP, Superman and the 1976 King Kong, it was also done with Jaws. I was hoping to see the Biggs scenes and other material when Star Wars premiered on network TV in 1984, but they just padded it out with 'making of' footage and publicity fluff instead.

 

[Harvey]

Earthquake (1974) and Two-Minute Warning (1976) also had notably extended TV versions. I think rather than deleted scenes being reinserted, both shot extensive additional material with new actors.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Maybe padding the films to fill up the time slot for a movie of the week event, with commercials, was also a factor in the inclusion of extra footage.

Including extra footage also created a draw for people who had already seen the films to tune in, so perhaps that was a consideration.

 

[Firebird]

Earthquake (1974) and Two-Minute Warning (1976) also had notably extended TV versions. I think rather than deleted scenes being reinserted, both shot extensive additional material with new actors.

Same with Midway (1976). They later shot an entire new sequence of the Battle of Coral Sea, as well as multiple domestic scenes for Charlton Heston's character that added another full hour to the runtime.

 

[Ssosmcin]

The Swarm and Beyond the Poseidon Adventure also had extended versions, but I'm not 100% that The Swarm was a TV version or an extended home video edition.

BTPA was def extended for TV and this actually added character subplots that I enjoyed and found disappointing to see missing on home video.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Very, very happy to have a 4K resolution of Wise's completed film. The 1979 film, as much as I loved it in 1979, has a lot of flaws. The 4K DE is something to be proud to show even SF fans who are not necessarily Trek fans.

 

[Warped9]

As I mentioned before the two things that really stood out for me on the 2022 DE was the vastly improved audio and the deft editing to improve the pacing. For me the film feels like it doesn’t drag anywhere anymore. And now the dialogue sounds more natural and nuanced like it should, that along with all the now audible background noises that give everything more depth.

For me this puts the film head-and-shoulders above any previous versions, making it definitive.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Ok, so now that the TMP “full set” has been released, I’m interested in what your favorite version of the film is and why.


For me, I always thought that “more was better,” so I longed for the SLV, even though I had not seen it since the VHS days. I loved some of the added dialogue and character moments, particularly for McCoy who definitely had some lines cut.


So, I just watched the SLV for the first time in probably 20 years last night when my new set finally showed up…and I think I like the new Director’s Edition better. The SLV does have some stuff that I miss (I’m one of the suckers who likes Kirk’s “oh my God” or his additional, terse “viewer OFF!” I also really liked Decker’s “We all create God in our own image” line because it ties in nicely with one of the themes of the film. The version of McCoy calling out Kirk in his quarters is also better in the SLV


But, ultimately, most of it is just cutting room floor material that could have stayed there. The long pan across the bridge while various status reports are given, the awkward scene between Sulu and Ilia, and the mis-matched departure from the airlock…


I do think now that the DE is the very best version of the film. It looks and flows better, even though it is still missing some of my favorite stuff. The added / improved soundmix is unbelievably superior. It is now “officially” my favorite version of the film.


How do you feel about the different versions?

The same here, the 2022 version's pacing is effective for the narrative and it kept my interests throughout. The 4K transfer is stunning to see; the threading in the uniforms and in the Starfleet patches are distinct, and the individual hairs of the cast are sharply detailed. The cast's faces are revealing and lifelike, particularly that of Leonard Nimoy, he of all of them appeared older in this one. Not bad for a 40 plus year old film. I think the DolbyVision element is quite effective in this presentation.

 

[arch101]

The Towering Inferno also has deleted/ extended scenes in its TV form…

 

[J C]

I prefer the 2001 Directors Edition, as it has better pacing which made the movie one of my top favorites.

 

[Grant]

So, I just watched the SLV for the first time in probably 20 years last night when my new set finally showed up…and I think I like the new Director’s Edition better. The SLV does have some stuff that I miss (I’m one of the suckers who likes Kirk’s “oh my God” or his additional, terse “viewer OFF!” I also really liked Decker’s “We all create God in our own image” line because it ties in nicely with one of the themes of the film. The version of McCoy calling out Kirk in his quarters is also better in the SLV


But, ultimately, most of it is just cutting room floor material that could have stayed there. The long pan across the bridge while various status reports are given, the awkward scene between Sulu and Ilia, and the mis-matched departure from the airlock…


I do think now that the DE is the very best version of the film. It looks and flows better, even though it is still missing some of my favorite stuff. The added / improved soundmix is unbelievably superior. It is now “officially” my favorite version of the film.


How do you feel about the different versions?

^^ That about sums it up for me.

My order.....

2022 DE -- near perfect with some of the above minor quibbles
2022 SLV -- Has all the good additions & the above mentioned poor ones & lacks the improved FX
2001 DE -- Great version but the print is nasty to watch in the HD and UHD era.
1979 -- an unfinished movie lacking the heart that it so desperately needs, that the above 3 provide.

 

[Grant]

Also I'd like to add that if they ever did a SLV style "all-the-deleted-footage kitchen sink version of the other 5 (especially TWOK) and sold it in an expensive "Complete Adventure" set -- I would snap it up in a second. Damn shame they never gave us the deleted scenes from 2-4, 6 along with the rest of the 5 deleted stuff. I'd still pay real money to see it.

 

[Qonundrum]

After rewatching:

Despite the DE having tighter scenes, CGI that's photorealistic and suitably expands the vistas - either for exteriors or the ship interiors as well (much improvements abound), and looking crisper with better DNR than the other editions in the 4K set, there's much that makes this the definitive version...

...but, dang, the altered audio still clobbers it all so badly that it's even more of a chore to listen to than all the most boring bits of the other editions combined. The wimpy alert klaxon and the replacement computer voice grate. The latter is understandable in some ways, but it too takes away too much the utilitarian and battleship feel* of the original film and replaces it with a sound and feel that can only be described as "brothel".

Nitpick aside, keeping the bulk of the "Kirk sees new refit" beauty pass scene intact is a huge win since, especially for the context of 1979 where it counts the most and for historical significance, the beauty shots are supposed to be a journey in of itself for fans accustomed to the look of 1966 (which was excellent in of itself for the time, but being used to the look of 66 and now seeing what was shown in 79 - it's legitimately epic and in a way that nothing since can come close to. It helps if one were there at the time, but it's fun to imagine what it was like living back then as well.)

* a feel that pays off and is properly fulfilled in TWOK and TSFS. Heck, even TFF keeps the original alert sound, which is a nice touch - something TUC lost in the fray as well...

The SLV looks grainier than expected, but definitely looks like it came from original 35mm elements but now in widescreen.

 

[Pauln6]

Also I'd like to add that if they ever did a SLV style "all-the-deleted-footage kitchen sink version of the other 5 (especially TWOK) and sold it in an expensive "Complete Adventure" set -- I would snap it up in a second. Damn shame they never gave us the deleted scenes from 2-4, 6 along with the rest of the 5 deleted stuff. I'd still pay real money to see it.

Yes I would pay for a disc of deleted scenes too but it's doubtful there would be huge general demand. Maybe it's the sort of thing they could do alongside the Roddenberry Archive.

After rewatching:

Despite the DE having tighter scenes, CGI that's photorealistic and suitably expands the vistas - either for exteriors or the ship interiors as well (much improvements abound), and looking crisper with better DNR than the other editions in the 4K set, there's much that makes this the definitive version...

...but, dang, the altered audio still clobbers it all so badly that it's even more of a chore to listen to than all the most boring bits of the other editions combined. The wimpy alert klaxon and the replacement computer voice grate. The latter is understandable in some ways, but it too takes away too much the utilitarian and battleship feel* of the original film and replaces it with a sound and feel that can only be described as "brothel".

Nitpick aside, keeping the bulk of the "Kirk sees new refit" beauty pass scene intact is a huge win since, especially for the context of 1979 where it counts the most and for historical significance, the beauty shots are supposed to be a journey in of itself for fans accustomed to the look of 1966 (which was excellent in of itself for the time, but being used to the look of 66 and now seeing what was shown in 79 - it's legitimately epic and in a way that nothing since can come close to. It helps if one were there at the time, but it's fun to imagine what it was like living back then as well.)

* a feel that pays off and is properly fulfilled in TWOK and TSFS. Heck, even TFF keeps the original alert sound, which is a nice touch - something TUC lost in the fray as well...

The SLV looks grainier than expected, but definitely looks like it came from original 35mm elements but now in widescreen.

The 4k TC was grainy so I suppose they were intended to match. I wish there was a Bluray version as I have neither a 4k player nor a 4k TV. Have they equalised the sound quality and colour correction on the SLV scenes? I am so frustrated that I can't watch it for myself.

Now that you mention it, I've been doing a fan edit, incorporating the major SLV scenes into the DE for my own personal hybrid cut. I had finished the first draft version when they announced the new DE and there was something about the new attack scene that seemed to be missing in my newer hybrid version. The quieter, limper red alert klaxon does suck some of the drama and sense of urgency from the scene. Maybe I will try to add the alarm from the first draft and see how that sounds.

I can't finish my second draft until I can rip the 4k SLV scenes but I might have to add a bit more grain to the new DE sections to get them to match.