What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

[Farscape One]

I disagree about Sybok and Sarek.

Sarek was faced with a decision that was based on stopping a war to save billions of lives and the Federation itself from being subjugated by the Klingons.

Sybok was on a selfish journey and essentially brainwashed people to help him release a being that most likely would have killed billions, if not the entire galaxy itself.

One was acting in defense of lives. The other was not.

 

[fireproof78]

I disagree about Sybok and Sarek.

Sarek was faced with a decision that was based on stopping a war to save billions of lives and the Federation itself from being subjugated by the Klingons.

Sybok was on a selfish journey and essentially brainwashed people to help him release a being that most likely would have killed billions, if not the entire galaxy itself.

One was acting in defense of lives. The other was not.

Indeed. Sybok cannot be divorced from possible consequences of his choices just because he thought he was doing right. See also John Gill.

 

[Sci]

I think a starship can be a setting that has character, and to which the audience gets attached, but yeah, it's not a character. I think to earn that audience attachment, you have to have well-written characters in whom the audience is invested who are themselves (the characters) emotionally attached to and invested in the ship. Like, I'm way more invested in the Cerritos on Lower Decks now that I see her through the eyes of Rutherford and Tendi than when I first saw the publicity stills.

 

[1001001]

But at least Sybok didn't intend to harm anyone.

Isn’t that the lesson, though? The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that?

 

[fireproof78]

I think a starship can be a setting that has character, and to which the audience gets attached, but yeah, it's not a character. I think to earn that audience attachment, you have to have well-written characters in whom the audience is invested who are themselves (the characters) emotionally attached to and invested in the ship.

This. This is a better way to put it. I can get invested in characters and their emotions, and that can include inanimate objects or what the object represents. But, I cannot put a ship, or car, or boat, or plane, on the same level as a character.

 

[cooleddie74]

And I can see the destruction of Qo'noS also going haywire for the Federation had the plot gone through. In the end neither adventure would have turned out well, with the destruction of an entire inhabited planet populated by billions being an inescapable result. Living with that might have been tough for Sarek, Admiral Cornwell and others.

The Sha-Ka-Ree entity could also have killed untold numbers of sentient beings across the galaxy but its powers were a mystery and, as shown, a Klingon Bird-of-Prey's disruptor cannons were enough to stun and immobilize it.

 

[Sci]

This. This is a better way to put it. I can get invested in characters and their emotions, and that can include inanimate objects or what the object represents. But, I cannot put a ship, or car, or boat, or plane, on the same level as a character.

I can, but I also recognize that I'm weird and that my reaction does not represent the reactions of most audience members.

But I think even in TOS, we see that dynamic at play. You're not invested in the welfare of the starship Enterprise in "The Cage," because your main character doesn't even want to be there anymore. You become invested in the welfare of the starship Enterprise when you see it through the eyes of Captain Kirk, who genuinely loves that ship.

 

[Orphalesion]

I think a starship can be a setting that has character, and to which the audience gets attached, but yeah, it's not a character. I think to earn that audience attachment, you have to have well-written characters in whom the audience is invested who are themselves (the characters) emotionally attached to and invested in the ship. Like, I'm way more invested in the Cerritos on Lower Decks now that I see her through the eyes of Rutherford and Tendi than when I first saw the publicity stills.

I disagree with the Cerritos being more interesting than Rutherford and Tendi, obviously, Rutherford and Tendi are two of my favourite Star Trek characters.
But otherwise thank you for putting it that way. Yes a location can have sort of character and influence on the plot and actual characters, but it's not an actual character.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

All Sybok wanted was to release people of their pain.

 

[Sci]

I disagree with the Cerritos being more interesting than Rutherford and Tendi, obviously, Rutherford and Tendi are two of my favourite Star Trek characters.

Mine too! I don't mean that the Cerritos is more interesting than Rutherford and Tendi. I mean that I am more invested in the Cerritos as a result of seeing the ship through the points of view of Rutherford and Tendi, who both love that ship.

And there are similar things at play in other stories. I'm invested in Hogwarts School of Witchcraft & Wizardry as a result of seeing it through the eyes of Harry, Ron, and Hermione as they grew up there. I'm invested in Neptune, California as a result of seeing it through the eyes of Veronica Mars. I'm attached to Gotham City as a result of seeing it through the eyes of Bruce Wayne, Barbara Gordon, etc. I'm invested in Winterfell and King's Landing as a result of seeing these communities through the eyes of the Starks, etc. I'm invested in the Millennium Falcon and Serenity as a result of seeing them through the eyes of Han Solo and Malcolm Reynolds. I'm invested in the planet Vulcan as a result of seeing it through the eyes of Mister Spock. And so on.

 

[Farscape One]

All Sybok wanted was to release people of their pain.

We need our pain!

 

[fireproof78]

But I think even in TOS, we see that dynamic at play. You're not invested in the welfare of the starship Enterprise in "The Cage," because your main character doesn't even want to be there anymore. You become invested in the welfare of the starship Enterprise when you see it through the eyes of Captain Kirk, who genuinely loves that ship.

Eh, I cared a lot about Pike so I couldn't go that far.

 

[Sci]

Eh, I cared a lot about Pike so I couldn't go that far.

Sure, but Pike isn't invested in the Enterprise in "The Cage." He starts the episode wanting to quit the service. So you can care a lot about Pike yet not be attached to the Enterprise as a "character" in "The Cage" because Pike isn't invested in it.

 

[Orphalesion]

Mine too! I don't mean that the Cerritos is more interesting than Rutherford and Tendi. I mean that I am more invested in the Cerritos as a result of seeing the ship through the points of view of Rutherford and Tendi, who both love that ship.

Oh right, I misread that! Sorry, it's late here and I should go to bed haha.

 

[fireproof78]

Sure, but Pike isn't invested in the Enterprise in "The Cage." He starts the episode wanting to quit the service. So you can care a lot about Pike yet not be attached to the Enterprise as a "character" in "The Cage" because Pike isn't invested in it.

I think it's more Pike wants the ship to do well so I care about that outcome. He expects more of it so I do as well.

 

[Weyoun 251]

It's a thing. They are a vehicle to the action. They don't feel, they don't have emotions, they are not characters. Sorry, I cannot treat them as characters. Telling me that "Baby is a character" on Supernatural is meaningless. I've never watched the show, and I have less regard for cars than I do for starships as characters.

But, even so, if they are characters they can be recast. No continuity violation.

I raise you Disco and Zora

 

[fireproof78]

I raise you Disco and Zora

And? I don't care about them. Zora moves me very little.

 

[Sci]

I think it's more Pike wants the ship to do well so I care about that outcome. He expects more of it so I do as well.

I think in "The Cage" he cares about his crew, but I don't really think he's invested in the Enterprise as a ship per se.

I raise you Disco and Zora

Zora is, indeed, the first time ST has ever literalized the idea of the "starship-as-character"...!

 

[fireproof78]

think in "The Cage" he cares about his crew, but I don't really think he's invested in the Enterprise as a ship per se.

True, but it's a concept that he has confidence in. At least my read.

 

[Orphalesion]

From what I gather Zora is similar to Romy from Andromeda, the ships AI personified as a hologram?
At that point it is a character, but that still doesn't make the other ships "characters".