Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

[JD]

Mithril was my first assumption, but given how cagey and borderline paranoid they're being about it, I question that. After all, we know the Dwarves traded mithril goods with the Elves, so while it's a precious resource it's not like it's mere existence should be a state secret.

Aside from the Silmarils, what other objects would warrant that behaviour? The only other thing that comes to mind is The Seven. IIRC Celebrimbor only personally made The Three, with the others made by elven smiths under his direction, and of course The One was forged by Sauron himself. So it's possible that for the purposes of this show that at least some of The Seven have already been forged (possibly in Numenor) and sent to Durin as "gifts".

Yeah, Mithril was my first thought too, but like you I wasn't sure if finding Mithril would be as big of a deal as this seemed. As far as I'm aware Mithril is pretty much just another metal, and this does seem like something more special than that.

One reason why I went with mithril and not the Seven is because of the glow. Granted we haven't seen the Seven on screen in any fashion beyond the prologue of the Jackson films, but I don't think there's been any indication that they would have such a glow, whereas dwarven unearthed treasures like mithril and the Arkenstone do.

What if it's the Arkenstone? Or would that not line up with the show's timeline?

 

[Brolan]

I was also wondering if it was the Arkenstone. Time will tell.

 

[FreezeC77]

Yeah, Mithril was my first thought too, but like you I wasn't sure if finding Mithril would be as big of a deal as this seemed. As far as I'm aware Mithril is pretty much just another metal, and this does seem like something more special than that.

What if it's the Arkenstone? Or would that not line up with the show's timeline?

I don't think it would be the Arkenstone because it would be a few thousand years too early and also they're in (under) the wrong mountain. The Arkenstone was discovered in Erebor(Lonely Mountain) in the third age (roughly 2000 years into the third age) and this is set in the second age and they're in Khazad-Dum (Moria).

I guess Mithril is 'possible' if this was like the VERY FIRST time it was found and we just hadn't gotten to the point of elves knowing/working with it... Because the elves turned Mithril into Ithildin and Celebrimbor himself etched the carvings on the Western door to Moria.

I think it was always kind of assumed that while Mithril existed in the largest quantities deep in Moria, it had been found in other spots in scarcer quantities which is how the elves had the ability to work it.

If it is a Silmaril it would certainly have a fate revealed that was unknown in the books because of the two remaining they were never mentioned as having been found again.

 

[JD]

Oh, I forgot Erebor was a different mountain. So, it's probably not the Arkenstone then.

I had a random thought only I would probably notice or care about, that I had forgotten to post before. Were there no horses in these parts of Middle Earth at this point? We see Galadriel and her group going all over Middle Earth, Arondir going from the outpost to Tiriharad, and then him and Bronwyn going to Hodern, and the hunters traveling through the countryside where the Harfoots are, all on foot. Now that I mention it, the only animal we saw was the cow.

 

[Set Harth]

Granted we haven't seen the Seven on screen in any fashion beyond the prologue of the Jackson films

We see Thror's ring in the extended version of the second Hobbit movie.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

For me it was the opposite, when I first tried to read the book as a kid. I breezed through those chapters but got bogged down in the subsequent material.

Even the audiobook version I find soporific. Very useful if I need to go to sleep.

 

[Reverend]

That's a fair analysis. I had forgotten that Celebrimbor didn't actually forge the Seven (I don't have my copy of The Silmarillion where I'm living but a quick look up online confirms Sauron gave the rings to the Dwarves), so you might be right that the Seven could've been sent them over from Númenor if Sauron is indeed hiding in plain sight as some of us suspect.

One reason why I went with mithril and not the Seven is because of the glow. Granted we haven't seen the Seven on screen in any fashion beyond the prologue of the Jackson films, but I don't think there's been any indication that they would have such a glow, whereas dwarven unearthed treasures like mithril and the Arkenstone do.

Yeah the glow is what made me initially suspect a Silmaril, especially given they took the time to mention their light and it's effect on even the likes of Morgoth earlier in the episode.

Yeah, Mithril was my first thought too, but like you I wasn't sure if finding Mithril would be as big of a deal as this seemed. As far as I'm aware Mithril is pretty much just another metal, and this does seem like something more special than that.

I suppose we could split the difference and posit that The Seven were made of mithril? That would make a kind of sense if they were made specifically to ensnare the Dwarves.

What if it's the Arkenstone? Or would that not line up with the show's timeline?

Shouldn't be. As has been noted, the Arkenstone was found under the Lonely Mountain far to the east of the Misty Mountains and beyond the greenwood, and that kingdom was founded in the early third age *after* the fall of Khazad Dum.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

We see Thror's ring in the extended version of the second Hobbit movie.

Ah, I didn't know that! Surprisingly, I've never watched the extended editions of any of The Hobbit films. I much prefer a certain fan edit that reduces the whole trilogy into a single (albeit long) film that focuses entirely on novel-only material (with the exception of Legalos making a brief appearance).

How did Thror's ring appear?

Yeah the glow is what made me initially suspect a Silmaril, especially given they took the time to mention their light and it's effect on even the likes of Morgoth earlier in the episode.

Good point there. I had forgotten about how the episode went out of its way to talk up Fëanor's hammer and his creation of the Simarils before leading into why Elrond was now in Celebrimbor's company. That indeed could've been a deliberate set-up for one of theirs introduction.

I suppose we could split the difference and suppose that The Seven were made of mithril? That would make a kind of sense if they were made specifically to ensnare the Dwarves.

I suppose there isn't any reason why they couldn't have been made of mithril since I don't think the material of any of the rings, even the One, were ever mentioned. As you said, mithril rings would certainly enamor the dwarves.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I did think it was one of the two missing Silmarils but the show wouldn't be able to tell almost any of the backstory, would it? However, the episode did dump quite a bit of exposition about Fëanor and the SIlmarils, even if Celebrimbor was somewhat dismissive of his grandfather's work, so it's a possibility. Mithril is my current suspect as I can't figure how a Silmaril would enter into crafting the Rings.

I doubt we're going to see Annatar "Lord of Gifts" or whoever Sauron has disguised himself as turn up in Eregion until late this season or perhaps next. I suspect it will be Halbrand after all due to his dropping the line "appearances can be deceptive" to Galadriel. If he starts tupping her, I'm out of here. Galadriel having sex with her uttermost enemy would be a travesty. Touching the darkness can be pushed too far.

As someone else mentioned, where are the horses? Are they going to have people banging two halves of coconuts together instead?

 

[The Knappos]

I was also wondering if it was the Arkenstone. Time will tell.

That was my exact thought. That or Marcellus Wallace's soul.

 

[Booji]

So far I think it's decent. The first episode wasn't the greatest, but the second ep was much, much better. The Elrond/Durin part was excellent. I found the Harfoots a bit annoying in the first ep, but not so in the second. Really liked the story there. The one thing I don't like at all so far is Galadriel's story. It just seems like action sequences thrown in for no reason at all except, because... action. I did enjoy the Forodwaith part up until the fight though. Really creepy looking and the mood was set nicely. Speaking of which, the look and music is really good so far. The show completely feels like a prequel in the Jackson LOTR universe, which is cool by me.

 

[Set Harth]

How did Thror's ring appear?

In the extended version Gandalf discovers Thrain alive in Dol Guldur and we get a flashback to the Battle of Azanulbizar in which the ring is taken from him via Azog chopping off his finger.

( I also would like to be able to say that Thror's ring can be seen on Thror himself during the first Hobbit movie, but I'm not sure that it can. )

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I suspect the purpose of the whole first season will be to gather a fellowship for the Second Age.

One suggestion I saw online was that Meteor Man is Tolkien's Man-in-the-Moon from Roverandom. I doubt Amazon have the rights to that.

I also doubt the shining item in Durin's chest is the Arkenstone. Amazon don't have the rights to mention that as it's in The Hobbit.

The fiery pit that consumed Maedhros and his Silmaril was in Beleriand, which was submerged at the end of the First Age. Maglor threw his Silmaril into the sea and the Valar set the remaining recovered Silmaril in the sky. That Maedhros's Silmaril would end up being discovered under the Misty Mountains over a thousand years later and hundreds of miles from where it was lost seems very unlikely but a MacGuffin's gotta do what a MacGuffin's gotta do.

 

[Jedi Marso]

How did Thror's ring appear?

In flashback, he was wearing it when he was first taken to Dol Guldur. Later, when Gandalf finds him there, he is missing both the ring and the finger he wore it on.

If you like the fan edited shorter versions of the Hobbit, there are also a couple of good fan edits making smaller episodes of the Dol Guldur stuff by itself, sort of a 'Gandalf's side trek' episode. One is called the Battle of Dol Guldur, is about 45 minutes, and is the better of the two IMO. The other is Durin's Folk and the Hill of Sorcery, which is about an hour and unnecessarily splices in more footage with Bilbo and the dwarves, including some Beorn stuff. I don't care for that one- I think it's a poor edit. The first one is pretty darn good, though, and it's worth having a separate vignette to preserve the fight between Elrond, Saruman, Galadriel, and the Nazgul.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I suspect the purpose of the whole first season will be to gather a fellowship for the Second Age.

One suggestion I saw online was that Meteor Man is Tolkien's Man-in-the-Moon from Roverandom. I doubt Amazon have the rights to that.

I also doubt the shining item in Durin's chest is the Arkenstone. Amazon don't have the rights to mention that as it's in The Hobbit.

The fiery pit that consumed Maedhros and his Silmaril was in Beleriand, which was submerged at the end of the First Age. Maglor threw his Silmaril into the sea and the Valar set the remaining recovered Silmaril in the sky. That Maedhros's Silmaril would end up being discovered under the Misty Mountains over a thousand years later and hundreds of miles from where it was lost seems very unlikely but a MacGuffin's gotta do what a MacGuffin's gotta do.

Yup. For these reasons I'm guessing it's either mithril or something else in the box, but not a Silmaril. A Silmaril loose in the S.A. totally upends the mythology.

 

[Skywalker]

I still want to find a good fan edit of The Hobbit that restores it to the original two-movie plan, including Gandalf's side quest, but cuts out as much of the excess fluff as possible.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I still want to find a good fan edit of The Hobbit that restores it to the original two-movie plan, including Gandalf's side quest, but cuts out as much of the excess fluff as possible.

There may be one out there, but I haven't gone looking recently. Gandalf's side quest adds a good 45 minutes to an hour to the film, depending on how you edit it. To leave it in, realistically you would need a two-movie edit.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

In the extended version Gandalf discovers Thrain alive in Dol Guldur and we get a flashback to the Battle of Azanulbizar in which the ring is taken from him via Azog chopping off his finger.

( I also would like to be able to say that Thror's ring can be seen on Thror himself during the first Hobbit movie, but I'm not sure that it can. )

In flashback, he was wearing it when he was first taken to Dol Guldur. Later, when Gandalf finds him there, he is missing both the ring and the finger he wore it on.

Well, yes, I figured that was how. My fault, I meant specifically what did it physically look like.

If you like the fan edited shorter versions of the Hobbit, there are also a couple of good fan edits making smaller episodes of the Dol Guldur stuff by itself, sort of a 'Gandalf's side trek' episode. One is called the Battle of Dol Guldur, is about 45 minutes, and is the better of the two IMO. The other is Durin's Folk and the Hill of Sorcery, which is about an hour and unnecessarily splices in more footage with Bilbo and the dwarves, including some Beorn stuff. I don't care for that one- I think it's a poor edit. The first one is pretty darn good, though, and it's worth having a separate vignette to preserve the fight between Elrond, Saruman, Galadriel, and the Nazgul.

Ah, yes, I would be interested in that (especially if it includes extended edition material). That was the one extra storytelling in the trilogy that I didn't mind, along with everything Radagast (but I'm biased because of Sylvester McCoy, of course). I'll have to look for that one. Thank you for the suggestion.

I still want to find a good fan edit of The Hobbit that restores it to the original two-movie plan, including Gandalf's side quest, but cuts out as much of the excess fluff as possible.

The fan edit that I prefer (which is called The Bilbo Edition) is more than four and a half hours long and it's strictly the novel material and I think that's probably the best thing we could possibly get. I do lament that we didn't get the original two-movie plan but I settle for that particular fan edit.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

Yup. For these reasons I'm guessing it's either mithril or something else in the box, but not a Silmaril. A Silmaril loose in the S.A. totally upends the mythology.

Isn’t there a mention of Galadriel’s ring (can’t recall it’s name, sorry) emitting a light or glow that was similar to one of the Silmarils in Appendix A? Perhaps this is it, or a piece of one of them?

Just a thought… (I broke out my battered and worn copy of LOTR after watching these first episodes to look for stuff.)

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Jedman67]

Galadriel had a gem called the elfstone (Elassar) which was (according to one version of the story) crafted by Celebrimbor as a gift. Galadriel had desired to preserve the beauty of the world and nature.
When Celebrimbor gave her the ring, she gifted the elfstone to Celebrian, who gave it Arwen (who gave it to Frodo in the books and Aragorn in the movies).
I would theorize that this gem is what allowed Elrond to protect Imladris from the forces of the Nazgul in the Third Age, along with the ring Vilya.
So if the show is trying to throw us a red herring, I think Elassar is a pretty likely alternative.
It's at least a thousand years too early to have the arkenstone and I doubt they have the rights to use the Silmarils.