Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

[JD]

I'm a little confused on what exactly Valinor is. The map in the beginning made it look like it was just a country on the other side of a sea, but then when the elves were going there, they went into that light, which almost looked like a portal into another dimension or something like that. Or was that just some kind of barrier they had to go through to get there?

 

[fireproof78]

I'm a little confused on what exactly Valinor is. The map in the beginning made it look like it was just a country on the other side of a sea, but then when the elves were going there, they went into that light, which almost looked like a portal into another dimension or something like that. Or was that just some kind of barrier they had to go through to get there?

It's a barrier, as other mortal races are forbidden to go to Valinor. The Elves are allowed due to be immortal and bound to Arda.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I'm a little confused on what exactly Valinor is. The map in the beginning made it look like it was just a country on the other side of a sea, but then when the elves were going there, they went into that light, which almost looked like a portal into another dimension or something like that. Or was that just some kind of barrier they had to go through to get there?

Valinor is the Undying Lands. Prior to the end of the Second Age, Arda (the Earth) is flat, and you can sail directly from Middle Earth to Valinor. At the end of the Second Age, the Numenoreans, corrupted by Sauron, violate the Ban of the Valar that prevents mortal man from setting foot on the shores of Valinor, or indeed, sailing west out of sight of Numenor for the fear they might chance upon Valinor accidentally. The Valar appeal to Eru Iluvatar (God), and he reshapes the world, making it round, and separating Valinor from the world. From that time forward, only the Eldar (among the races of M.E.) (elves) can sail to the Undying Lands, taking a path granted to them by the Valar that allows them to leave the confines of Arda rather than sail around the world to the opposite shore.

So in the show, the breaking clouds and light represents the path to Valinor available only to the elves, but the problem is that at this point in the Second Age, Arda is still flat and Valinor is still part of the world. Technically speaking, they could have sailed right to it without any mystical bruhaha. It's a canon-buster. But that is the explanation.

The bit of verse spoken by Gandalf to Pippin in the ROTK movie about death not being the end is lifted from another part of LOTR. What it really is is Gandalf (who is Istari, a Maiar, named Olorin in the Undying Lands) describing what it is like to take the path to Valinor, and it is a beautiful piece of writing.

 

[fireproof78]

Not a problem...yet.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The show's gonna create its own canon. Such is the way of adaptation.

 

[JD]

It's a barrier, as other mortal races are forbidden to go to Valinor. The Elves are allowed due to be immortal and bound to Arda.

Valinor is the Undying Lands. Prior to the end of the Second Age, Arda (the Earth) is flat, and you can sail directly from Middle Earth to Valinor. At the end of the Second Age, the Numenoreans, corrupted by Sauron, violate the Ban of the Valar that prevents mortal man from setting foot on the shores of Valinor, or indeed, sailing west out of sight of Numenor for the fear they might chance upon Valinor accidentally. The Valar appeal to Eru Iluvator (God), and he reshapes the world, making it round, and separating Valinor from the world. From that time forward, only the Eldar (among the races of M.E.) (elves) can sail to the Undying Lands, taking a path granted to them by the Valar that allows them to leave the confines of Arda rather than sail around the world to the opposite shore.

So in the show, the breaking clouds and light represents the path to Valinor available only to the elves, but the problem is that at this point in the Second Age, Arda is still flat and Valinor is still part of the world. Technically speaking, they could have sailed right to it without any mystical bruhaha. It's a canon-buster. But that is the explanation.

The bit of verse spoken by Gandalf to Pippin in the ROTK movie about death not being the end is lifted from another part of LOTR. What it really is is Gandalf (who is Istari, a Maiar, named Olorin in the Undying Lands) describing what it is like to take the path to Valinor, and it is a beautiful piece of writing.

I get it now, thanks.

 

[fireproof78]

The show's gonna create its own canon. Such is the way of adaptation.

No other way around it.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I get it now, thanks.

If you like this stuff, you should really read The Silmarillion. It is a more beautiful creation myth than Genesis- just pure artistry on the part of Tolkien. It really makes you wonder what muse inspires the mind of a single man, that he can create material such as this. It's almost as if he's tapping something beyond memory and time, which is why I think the fanbase is so large and so faithful. It strikes chords inside you.

Sounds corny, but it's true.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, I wouldn't rate it that highly but it has an artistry it's own. Certainly better than most creation myths I've studied.

 

[JD]

I've been thinking about giving LOTR another go sometime soon, and I'll probably include the Silmarillion this time.

 

[fireproof78]

I've been thinking about giving LOTR another go sometime soon, and I'll probably include the Silmarillion this time.

The Similarion is more episodic so you might have an easier time getting in to it without having to finish it.

 

[JD]

Sometimes with books with multiple stories, I take breaks between stories ,so I might do that with The Silmarillion.

 

[Colonel Midnight]

^ Good idea. The Silmarillion, I find, is something to be enjoyed in small doses. YMMV, of course.

Cheers,
-CM-

 

[Reverend]

Yeah, The Silmarillion isn't really a novel in the traditional sense, or even a collection of short stories. It's more a series of broad historical summaries with varying degrees of detail and focus arranged in basically chronological order. Trying to attack it head on is always going to be a slog; it really works best as a source of reference to dip in and out of than anything else.

There's plenty of Celtic mythology to make up a perceived Anglo-Saxon shortfall. I suspect the latter would have been pretty much similar to that of other Germanic languages. Tolkien borrowed elements from the mythologies of both language families and Finnish as well I believe.

Here's the thing though, he didn't want to just kludge together existing Germanic, Norse and Celtic mythology and call it a day, because as he saw it, that's already part of the problem.
Britain (more specifically England) doesn't have it's own coherent folkore and mythology precisely because it's a mongrel culture, born of multiple waves of colonisers, conquerors, missionaries and occupiers annihilating whatever ancient tribal mythology there was and replacing it with scraps of their own.
Tolkien's idea was to present an idea of what that "lost" mythology and pre-Roman history may have looked like.

 

[TimeIsAPredator]

I'm a little confused on what exactly Valinor is. The map in the beginning made it look like it was just a country on the other side of a sea, but then when the elves were going there, they went into that light, which almost looked like a portal into another dimension or something like that. Or was that just some kind of barrier they had to go through to get there?

It was once a continent but got taken out of the world to protect it so they are kinda ascending to heaven.

 

[Saul]

It's a very pretty show but like House of Dragons there's not much going on here. It feels pretty slow so far. But I'll be continuing to watch it.

That was quite evident, at least to me. It seemed to be a blade forged for the armies of Morgoth/Sauron - it even had Sauron's rune in it. I figure it is something akin to the Nazgul blades and a remnant of the war against Morgoth. The sentry Elves even speak of Men and their heritage of allegiance to Morgoth and this was "just" a physical representation of that.

Maybe it's something connected to his father?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It was once a continent but got taken out of the world to protect it so they are kinda ascending to heaven.

In The Silmarillion, Valinor doesn't get taken out of Arda until the Fall of Númenor when Arda is also reshaped into a globe from a disc. However, it wouldn't be a big deal for me if this show has the world reshaping take place at the end of the First Age when Beleriand in the north-east of Middle-earth is drowned. However, it would make it difficult if not impossible for Ar-Pharazôn to mount the attack on Valinor that leads to the destruction of Númenor.

Regarding the words "Mana Úrë" that Meteor Man says in the second episode, I've seen this translated as the Quenya for "hand of fire", which I suspect is a reference to Sauron's mark. The fact that certain constellations are only visible from some lands but not others suggests to me that Arda in this series is already a globe as all constellations would be equally visible from a disc - although only half the celestial sphere at any time.

In this series, the Moon is shown in the orientation as seen from the northern hemisphere of our Earth with the Mare Frigoris at the top, not at the bottom as in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings movies - but it's quite obvious why that is so given where those were filmed.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

^ Good idea. The Silmarillion, I find, is something to be enjoyed in small doses. YMMV, of course.

The audiobook, read by Martin Shaw, is pretty good if one finds the actual book a bit of a slog. I saw recently that someone has uploaded it onto YouTube.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I got the audiobook for LOTR and Hobbit and that definitely helped me get through it easier.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I found the Ainulindalë and the Valaquenta quite a slog to read. It does get easier after that.

Another thought regarding what is contained in Durin III's chest - I now think it's probably Mithril ore and not a Silmaril. Celebrimbor uses Mithril to create the shining gate to Moria that we see depicted in The Fellowship of the Ring (both book and movie).