Reception detail TSFS?

[Crewman47]

I think that's what you might call but if not during the scene where the Admiral comes aboard and tells Kirk that the Enterprise won't be given a refit why do they do the scene in the Torpedo room and why do they have a select few from the crew to meet this Admiral? You'd think if something as important as what he had said would've been ideally suited to the Conference Room with the Senior Staff or even the Captains office but breaking news like that in front of Cadets and Non-Comms is not something I'd thought would happen that way.

Any thoughts?

 

[Kirby]

That scene started out with the Admiral making a speech about how good of a job they did and they were all to be commended and given extra shore leave, yada, yada, yada. It was all a nice pat on the back to the crew, but it wasn't until Kirk started asking questions about fixing the Enterprise and going back to Genesis that it detoured into a conversation that the Admiral probably didn't want to have at that time.
In the real world the Admiral should have dismissed the crew and had that conversation with Kirk and possibly Scotty.

 

[cardinal biggles]

...why do they do the scene in the Torpedo room .... You'd think if something as important as what he had said would've been ideally suited to the Conference Room with the Senior Staff or even the Captains office

Kirk never really had an office, though they could have had the scene take place in his quarters. The reason they used the torpedo room? Because it was there. One less new set to build/make out of the other sets.

 

[Timo]

...Treknologically speaking, it seems that a person could embark a refitted Constitution starship on three locations while at pier: the saucer portside rim, the torpedo deck, or the cargo bay. That's where a gangway tunnel could connect to the ship from the side.

The cargo bay would be nice for somebody wanting to come in, make a grand speech to a lot of folks (who'd look up at him in awe from the cargo floor below), and then quickly get out. But that set would have been hugely expensive... So let's say Morrow didn't want quite that grandiose a setting. Why not come through the saucer rim, since the nice lounges and offices and stuff are probably all in the saucer, and the torpedo deck is very utilitarian? Of course, it's a matter of not having the saucer gangway set ready, so we have to invent another exuse. Perhaps Khan had blasted that doorway to bits when we weren't looking?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Peach Wookiee]

An interesting idea, Timo.

 

[SmoothieX]

That scene started out with the Admiral making a speech about how good of a job they did and they were all to be commended and given extra shore leave, yada, yada, yada. It was all a nice pat on the back to the crew, but it wasn't until Kirk started asking questions about fixing the Enterprise and going back to Genesis that it detoured into a conversation that the Admiral probably didn't want to have at that time.
In the real world the Admiral should have dismissed the crew and had that conversation with Kirk and possibly Scotty.

Yep - that's pretty much what I think. He's there giving an inspection and pep talk before the conversation goes downhill. He does a decent job of nipping it in the bud though. He doesn't give away anything of significance in front of the crew.

Just that Genesis is an off limits topic and that the Enterprise will not be refit. All stuff they would be issued orders about anyway.

 

[Captain59]

It was actually Scotty who started the whole thing when he told Morrow he would rather supervide the refit of Enterprise rather than report to the Excelsior as captain of engineering.

I never understood what the Captain of Engineering was, anyway. Whatever it was, it got Scotty a promotion...for a little while, at least.

 

[Data Holmes]

It was actually Scotty who started the whole thing when he told Morrow he would rather supervide the refit of Enterprise rather than report to the Excelsior as captain of engineering.

I never understood what the Captain of Engineering was, anyway. Whatever it was, it got Scotty a promotion...for a little while, at least.

I think it was Marrow's way of telling scotty that the position also carried the promotion to the rank of captain.

So, anyone with a rank over commander, who isn't in command of a starship is called Captain of X. So if a medical officer is called Captain of Medical, a security officer would be Captain of security.


It's similar to the old school royal navy of Captain and Post Captain...

 

[Timo]

Makes good sense. What makes less sense is how, after ST3, Scotty seems to forget he got that promotion, and in ST4 appears in Commander insignia at his court martial.

Perhaps Starfleet bureaucracy worked really fast and stripped Scotty of his promotion even before the trial was completed? Or perhaps the promotion was tied to the posting aboard the Excelsior, and automatically revoked at the termination of that posting?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[cardinal biggles]

Dunno, but he was re-promoted by the next film. It's hard to see, but Doohan's wearing captain's bars when he offers Koord some Scotch.

 

[Timo]

We might always say that Scotty was unduly pessimistic when dressing up for the court martial, and chose his old Commander pins (the ones he had still had on his older jacket when stealing the Enterprise, and which he thus wore throughout ST3 and ST4) in anticipation of a demotion...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

We might always say that Scotty was unduly pessimistic when dressing up for the court martial, and chose his old Commander pins (the ones he had still had on his older jacket when stealing the Enterprise, and which he thus wore throughout ST3 and ST4) in anticipation of a demotion...

Or he just grabbed the wrong jacket, one with an old pin on it.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Either of those is possible.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Or he just grabbed the wrong jacket, one with an old pin on it.

I dunno... I think Scotty was always meticulous about his appearance - especially for something as important as a court-martial!

 

[ClayinCA]

I don't remember what rank pin(s) he's wearing in either The Undiscovered Country or Generations, but he's certainly a Captain by the time he goes on board the Jenolen and ends up in the 24th century.

 

[A beaker full of death]

I don't remember what rank pin(s) he's wearing in either The Undiscovered Country or Generations, but he's certainly a Captain by the time he goes on board the Jenolen and ends up in the 24th century.

Yeah, but that was a gimme to Doohan. He always took the position that Scotty was in fact promoted to captain in TSFS; others disagreed.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

I don't remember what rank pin(s) he's wearing in either The Undiscovered Country or Generations

He wore captain's rank in The Final Frontier, The Undiscovered Country, and Generations:

Which suggests to me that the rank pins in The Voyage Home were costuming errors.

 

[Timo]

...The pins on Scotty's "AWOL jacket" could easily be taken to be a story point: Scotty hadn't been a Captain for a whole working day yet when he decided to jump boat, and his alternate clothing still aboard the Enterprise would most probably have his old rank pins.

It is just his jacket worn in the court martial, and later at embarking the E-A, that is at odds with the later story. But it's not at odds with logic, as certainly Starfleet would wish to punish our heroes, no matter what the UFP President said. Kirk's celebrity status might protect him; Spock would have his backers, too. But the lesser players might not fare that well.

Sulu's supposed promotion to Captain would be put on hold, surely. Similar things could be done on the careers of Chekov and Uhura. And Scotty, guilty of arguably the greatest crimes against Starfleet, including sabotage of the Excelsior and the Spacedock door locks and actual facilitiation of the starship theft, might in fact get demoted even before his trial would begin.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[cardinal biggles]

Except that the bomber jacket he's wearing for the rest of the film still has his captain's bars on it (as seen here on the bridge when they're stealing the ship, and here after Spock completes the fal-tor-pan). And none of them look like they're carrying any luggage when they beam down to Genesis. The fact that Scotty was "re-promoted" in TFF(which we're led to understand begins only a couple of weeks after the end of TVH) would suggest he wasn't really demoted.

The costuming department fucked up. As Freud once said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Except that the bomber jacket he's wearing for the rest of the film still has his captain's bars on it (as seen here on the bridge when they're stealing the ship, and here after Spock completes the fal-tor-pan).

Right. And in TVH the same bomber jacket has a commander's pin on it.