Star Trek TOS Re-Watch

[Mytran]

Wasn't there an episode where all the telepaths were hiding in transporter patterns? I assume we saw the transporter in that episode. I can't remember. You may have already mentioned it.

That's the episode Counterpoint and it is on my list below

Thanks. I remember The Disease now as well. And I checked Chrissie's site that way but must have blown something in my search as it didn't work. How many references did you see?

I wonder what went wrong? There's 69 results and a few of them are only mentions of the Transporter Room, but most are valid. Here's the results from the first 3 pages:

• Counterpoint
• Prototype
• Maneuvers
• Relativity
• Phage
• Death Wish
• Tuvix
• Drone
• Caretaker
• Tattoo
• Demon
• The Void
• Emanations
• Faces
• Dreadnought
• Prophecy
• Jetrel
• Imperfection
• Eye of the Needle
• Gravity
• Macrocosm
• Mortal Coil
• Dark Frontier

 

[Phaser Two]

That's the episode Counterpoint and it is on my list below
I wonder what went wrong? There's 69 results and a few of them are only mentions of the Transporter Room, but most are valid.

Occam's Razor? I think I just blew the search.

So 69 out of 172. 40% to start. That's much higher than I thought but let's break it down.

Maneuvers - significant TR scenes. I forgot all about this one.
Counterpoint - significant TR scenes. There are about 4-5 VOY eps I have never seen, and this is one of them.
Phage - huge TR scene. I should have remembered this as it's a good ep.
Prototype - two TR scenes.
Relativity - opening scene only and in the past.
Investigations - no real scenes.
Drone - one TR scene, but significant.
Resistance - no scenes.
Death Wish - opening scene only. I should have remembered this.
Caretaker - brief scenes; not surprised I forgot them.
Tattoo - two scenes. Not my favorite ep (but not as bad as people say).
Tuvix - this one I actually remembered.
Prophecy - short TR action. One of those eps I've never seen.
The Void - three short scenes.
Demon - yes! Significant plot points. I should have remembered this. The most significant use of the TR so far.
Jetrel - two short scenes, but significant.
Emanations - significant TR action. So early (Seska good!) I forgot about it.
Dreadnought - three short scenes.
Imperfection - opening scene only.
Faces - two short scenes.
Gravity - one tiny scene and one significant scene.
Warlord - significant TR action. I should have remembered this.
Dark Frontier - not actually the TR, but the holodeck and not particularly significant.
Eye of the Needle - significant TR action up there with Demon.
One Small Step - no scenes.
Future's End - one tiny scene.
Non Sequitur - no scenes.
Juggernaut - no scenes.
Mortal Coil - three small but on balance fairly significant scenes.
Macrocosm - three tiny scenes.
Threshold - no scenes.
Darkling - I've never seen this one. Very significant TR action.
Ashes to Ashes - one scene lasting a few seconds.
False Profits - oof. I purged this one. One significant TR scene and two smaller ones.
Unforgettable - two tiny scenes.
State of Flux - no scenes.
Fair Trade - no scenes.
Alliances - one scene. Forgot all about it.
Once Upon a Time - one tiny scene.
Learning Curve - oh, right. One scene but significant and funny.
Worst Case Scenario - one scene, hologram flashback. Not surprised I forgot it.
Equinox - no scenes.
Someone to Watch Over Me - two scenes. Incidental but I remember them now.
The Omega Directive - no scenes.
Collective - no scenes.
Thirty Days - one scene. I remember it now.
Hope and Fear - no scenes.
Twisted - no scenes.
Hunters - no scenes.
The Raven - no scenes.
Shattered - no scenes.
Blink of an Eye - two significant scenes, one with key dialogue. I should have remembered this.
Flesh and Blood - one tiny scene.
Warhead - one scene lasting about 5-10 seconds.
Time and Again - no scenes.
Endgame - one scene with two lines lasting 5 seconds.
Basics - no scenes.
The Chute - no scenes.
Day of Honor - no scenes.
Child's Play - one scene, four lines.
Prime Factors - one scene, early ep, but significant.
Unimatrix Zero - a glimpse with no dialogue.
Blood Fever - just one scene, but funny. I remembered it right away.
The Haunting of Deck Twelve - no scenes.
Bliss - one tiny scene.
Nemesis - one tiny scene.
Night - big, dialogue-heavy scene. My bad for not remembering this.
The Swarm - no scenes.
Innocence - one short scene. I've never seen this ep.

And finally, add in The Disease where you see Harry and Tom coming out of it, but no dialogue takes place in the TR.

So in the end, I can forgive myself - mostly - for not remembering much about Voyager's transporter room. 22 of the 69 episodes only mention the TR without showing it, so it only appears in 47 of 172 episodes (27.3%, not counting The Disease). Of those, there are only 17 where I would characterize the appearance of the TR as significant to the dialogue or the plot, so we're down to just under 10% of 172 episodes. 155 Voyager episodes do not show the transporter room at all or only show it in highly brief, incidental scenes.

By contrast, I can remember without thinking hard about 40 Star Trek episodes that involve important dialogue or plot points taking place in the transporter room. In fact, I just went through the episode list of Star Trek, and it's far easier to identify episodes without transporter room scenes than those with such scenes. I think the introduction of the holodeck as a story driver, Voyager's general lack of "enter standard orbit"-type episodes, and the lack of any recurring character who was identified with the transporter (outside of maybe Seska) all contributed to a pretty unmemorable TR on Voyager.

And now I need to rewatch Voyager, something I've long intended!

 

[Mytran]

Occam's Razor? I think I just blew the search.

So 69 out of 172. 40% to start. That's much higher than I thought but let's break it down.

Maneuvers - significant TR scenes. I forgot all about this one.
Counterpoint - significant TR scenes. There are about 4-5 VOY eps I have never seen, and this is one of them.
Phage - huge TR scene. I should have remembered this as it's a good ep.
Prototype - two TR scenes.
Relativity - opening scene only and in the past.
Investigations - no real scenes.
Drone - one TR scene, but significant.
Resistance - no scenes.
Death Wish - opening scene only. I should have remembered this.
Caretaker - brief scenes; not surprised I forgot them.
Tattoo - two scenes. Not my favorite ep (but not as bad as people say).
Tuvix - this one I actually remembered.
Prophecy - short TR action. One of those eps I've never seen.
The Void - three short scenes.
Demon - yes! Significant plot points. I should have remembered this. The most significant use of the TR so far.
Jetrel - two short scenes, but significant.
Emanations - significant TR action. So early (Seska good!) I forgot about it.
Dreadnought - three short scenes.
Imperfection - opening scene only.
Faces - two short scenes.
Gravity - one tiny scene and one significant scene.
Warlord - significant TR action. I should have remembered this.
Dark Frontier - not actually the TR, but the holodeck and not particularly significant.
Eye of the Needle - significant TR action up there with Demon.
One Small Step - no scenes.
Future's End - one tiny scene.
Non Sequitur - no scenes.
Juggernaut - no scenes.
Mortal Coil - three small but on balance fairly significant scenes.
Macrocosm - three tiny scenes.
Threshold - no scenes.
Darkling - I've never seen this one. Very significant TR action.
Ashes to Ashes - one scene lasting a few seconds.
False Profits - oof. I purged this one. One significant TR scene and two smaller ones.
Unforgettable - two tiny scenes.
State of Flux - no scenes.
Fair Trade - no scenes.
Alliances - one scene. Forgot all about it.
Once Upon a Time - one tiny scene.
Learning Curve - oh, right. One scene but significant and funny.
Worst Case Scenario - one scene, hologram flashback. Not surprised I forgot it.
Equinox - no scenes.
Someone to Watch Over Me - two scenes. Incidental but I remember them now.
The Omega Directive - no scenes.
Collective - no scenes.
Thirty Days - one scene. I remember it now.
Hope and Fear - no scenes.
Twisted - no scenes.
Hunters - no scenes.
The Raven - no scenes.
Shattered - no scenes.
Blink of an Eye - two significant scenes, one with key dialogue. I should have remembered this.
Flesh and Blood - one tiny scene.
Warhead - one scene lasting about 5-10 seconds.
Time and Again - no scenes.
Endgame - one scene with two lines lasting 5 seconds.
Basics - no scenes.
The Chute - no scenes.
Day of Honor - no scenes.
Child's Play - one scene, four lines.
Prime Factors - one scene, early ep, but significant.
Unimatrix Zero - a glimpse with no dialogue.
Blood Fever - just one scene, but funny. I remembered it right away.
The Haunting of Deck Twelve - no scenes.
Bliss - one tiny scene.
Nemesis - one tiny scene.
Night - big, dialogue-heavy scene. My bad for not remembering this.
The Swarm - no scenes.
Innocence - one short scene. I've never seen this ep.

And finally, add in The Disease where you see Harry and Tom coming out of it, but no dialogue takes place in the TR.

So in the end, I can forgive myself - mostly - for not remembering much about Voyager's transporter room. 22 of the 69 episodes only mention the TR without showing it, so it only appears in 47 of 172 episodes (27.3%, not counting The Disease). Of those, there are only 17 where I would characterize the appearance of the TR as significant to the dialogue or the plot, so we're down to just under 10% of 172 episodes. 155 Voyager episodes do not show the transporter room at all or only show it in highly brief, incidental scenes.

By contrast, I can remember without thinking hard about 40 Star Trek episodes that involve important dialogue or plot points taking place in the transporter room. In fact, I just went through the episode list of Star Trek, and it's far easier to identify episodes without transporter room scenes than those with such scenes. I think the introduction of the holodeck as a story driver, Voyager's general lack of "enter standard orbit"-type episodes, and the lack of any recurring character who was identified with the transporter (outside of maybe Seska) all contributed to a pretty unmemorable TR on Voyager.

And now I need to rewatch Voyager, something I've long intended!

Great collation of data - far better than I could manage in my lunch break earlier!

 

[Phaser Two]

Great collation of data - far better than I could manage in my lunch break earlier!

Thanks! It was genuinely fun and I was able to do it fairly quickly. Most of all it reminded me of how much I really enjoyed Voyager, and the little project will spur me to do that rewatch (and see those 4-5 episodes I somehow missed!). Thanks for getting me to the point where I'll finally rewatch the show.

 

[Timofnine]

Janice was in the pink outfit when Charlie sent her to the cornfield. She's traumatized by that experience, not the Thasians bringing her back.

Ah yeah, I rewatched to check and you are correct.

What in the world gave you that idea?

Because the interaction between the characters was an even more awkward version of the interactions on the transporter pad between Mudd’s Women and the Enterprise crew who greeted them in said episode. Facial expressions... acting is more than words. Mudd’s women were however cargo, Charlie was not cargo, despite the fact that he was travelling on a cargo ship.

No.

Janice doesn't demand that of Kirk, she tells him, in a very compassionate tone, that she would be forced to say that to Charlie which she doesn't want to do to him.



No.

Kirk, also, does not say that to Charlie. He says that ABOUT Charlie in the briefing room to Spock and McCoy. Far from scolding, Kirk is understanding.

Sorry, my memory plays tricks on me sometimes so I am glad that I have people such as yourself to correct me.

My point was that Charlie was behaving like ‘bad’ Kirk from ‘The Enemy Within’. ‘Prime’ Kirk still has these memories after the transporter reintegration (he also had the scars off Janice), so maybe this is why Kirk found it awkward to deal with Charlie and give him advice… perhaps Kirk had been similar to Charlie in his youth but minus the super powers?

 

[Ssosmcin]

The men from Antaras were acting very strangely because they were under Charlie's influence. They wanted to warn Kirk about Charlie, but he was preventing them from seeing anything other than good things. He also no doubt rushed them off the Enterprise to prevent them from saying anything negative.

Charlie was acting just like any prepubescent young lad who has yet to develop any emotional maturity. Kirk understood him because Kirk was also a young lad at one time.

 

[Timofnine]

The men from Antaras were acting very strangely because they were under Charlie's influence. They wanted to warn Kirk about Charlie, but he was preventing them from seeing anything other than good things. He also no doubt rushed them off the Enterprise to prevent them from saying anything negative.

Charlie was acting just like any prepubescent young lad who has yet to develop any emotional maturity. Kirk understood him because Kirk was also a young lad at one time.

Charlie had been orphaned and marooned since the age of 3, he had not had a ‘normal’ upbringing and childhood. Charlie did not want to be returned to the Thasians… obviously he had a bad experience with them too. I also got the impression that Charlie had a bad experience with the Antares crew. Charlie is correctly represented as a ‘bad guy’ in this episode due to his actions but what if these behaviours were a result of his childhood trauma(s) and proceeding experiences? I can’t help but feel that Charlie is somewhat of a victim of circumstance, and that he had no one to help him escape or ‘rehabilitate’. There are still the strong parallels to Gary Mitchel, does anyone think that Charlie could also have been an Esper?

 

[Commander Troi]

Charlie had been orphaned and marooned since the age of 3, he had not had a ‘normal’ upbringing and childhood. Charlie did not want to be returned to the Thasians… obviously he had a bad experience with them too. I also got the impression that Charlie had a bad experience with the Antares crew. Charlie is correctly represented as a ‘bad guy’ in this episode due to his actions but what if these behaviours were a result of his childhood trauma(s) and proceeding experiences? I can’t help but feel that Charlie is somewhat of a victim of circumstance, and that he had no one to help him escape or ‘rehabilitate’. There are still the strong parallels to Gary Mitchel, does anyone think that Charlie could also have been an Esper?

Charlie *is* a victim of circumstance, but he's too dangerous to others to be out in the world. That's the tragedy of the story.

I think it's possible Charlie was an Esper, but it's also possible the Thasians were just that powerful. TOS never really got into it.

 

[Timofnine]

Charlie *is* a victim of circumstance, but he's too dangerous to others to be out in the world. That's the tragedy of the story.

I think it's possible Charlie was an Esper, but it's also possible the Thasians were just that powerful. TOS never really got into it.

Charlie needed a role model, even Spock knew this. Kirk at first was reluctant to fulfill this role but he eventually took on the role because he had to, as a result of duty - not because he wanted to in a ‘nurturing’ way. Charlie needed someone like Kirk to fully and willingly take him under their wing so to speak. I wonder why Spock himself did not try to mentor Charlie further? His Vulcan teachings could have helped with his emotional self discipline and control. Maybe Spock did try to help Charlie but we just never got to see these interactions truly represented in the episode? The Chess game between Spock and Charlie came close but chess is a game that could potentially get *anyone* frustrated… as previously mentioned though, an onboard counsellor would have made a *massive* difference in this episode, especially one familiar with Espers such as Elizabeth Dehner.

In regards to Charlie actually potentially being an Esper, it seems that this human minorities abilities are somewhat limited and recessive, so far in Star Trek it obviously takes an external ‘extra terrestrial’ influence for Esper abilities to come in to ‘full force’ and fruition. If Esper’s have a history of going ‘off the rails’ and out of control then it could be because there is no one suitable to guide them when they start reaching their potential?

 

[Donald G]

Charlie needed a role model, even Spock knew this. Kirk at first was reluctant to fulfill this role but he eventually took on the role because he had to, as a result of duty - not because he wanted to in a ‘nurturing’ way. Charlie needed someone like Kirk to fully and willingly take him under their wing so to speak. I wonder why Spock himself did not try to mentor Charlie further? His Vulcan teachings could have helped with his emotional self discipline and control. Maybe Spock did try to help Charlie but we just never got to see these interactions truly represented in the episode? The Chess game between Spock and Charlie came close but chess is a game that could potentially get *anyone* frustrated… as previously mentioned though, an onboard counsellor would have made a *massive* difference in this episode, especially one familiar with Espers such as Elizabeth Dehner.

In regards to Charlie actually potentially being an Esper, it seems that this human minorities abilities are somewhat limited and recessive, so far in Star Trek it obviously takes an external ‘extra terrestrial’ influence for Esper abilities to come in to ‘full force’ and fruition. If Esper’s have a history of going ‘off the rails’ and out of control then it could be because there is no one suitable to guide them when they start reaching their potential?

Kirk's job is to command the ship, not be a Big Brother or foster parent to a disadvantaged youth. And at this point in production history, Kirk had not yet been retconned into being an absentee father. Why should Kirk or Spock have to take Charlie under wing? Why not McCoy, who has medical and psychological training (and whose behind the scenes backstory has him a father)? Why was McCoy so eager to pawn the task off on Kirk, when McCoy already seemed to have an easy friendly relationship with the boy. (The way the scene is played, McCoy wanted to see Kirk squirm trying to perform a task with which Jim was uncomfortable, that of being a stand-in parental figure.) McCoy surely has psychologists and psychiatrists on his medical staff better suited to socializing Charlie and acclimating him to living among other humans, and the science department has sociologists to consult as well.

Why should the duty fall to Kirk?

 

[dupersuper]

Kirk's job is to command the ship, not be a Big Brother or foster parent to a disadvantaged youth. And at this point in production history, Kirk had not yet been retconned into being an absentee father. Why should Kirk or Spock have to take Charlie under wing? Why not McCoy, who has medical and psychological training (and whose behind the scenes backstory has him a father)? Why was McCoy so eager to pawn the task off on Kirk, when McCoy already seemed to have an easy friendly relationship with the boy. (The way the scene is played, McCoy wanted to see Kirk squirm trying to perform a task with which Jim was uncomfortable, that of being a stand-in parental figure.) McCoy surely has psychologists and psychiatrists on his medical staff better suited to socializing Charlie and acclimating him to living among other humans, and the science department has sociologists to consult as well.

Why should the duty fall to Kirk?

Because - due in part to him being the captain - he was the one Charlie was clearly responding to,

 

[Mudd]

"Charlie X" is "It's A Good Life."

 

[Commishsleer]

Kirk's job is to command the ship, not be a Big Brother or foster parent to a disadvantaged youth. And at this point in production history, Kirk had not yet been retconned into being an absentee father. Why should Kirk or Spock have to take Charlie under wing? Why not McCoy, who has medical and psychological training (and whose behind the scenes backstory has him a father)? Why was McCoy so eager to pawn the task off on Kirk, when McCoy already seemed to have an easy friendly relationship with the boy. (The way the scene is played, McCoy wanted to see Kirk squirm trying to perform a task with which Jim was uncomfortable, that of being a stand-in parental figure.) McCoy surely has psychologists and psychiatrists on his medical staff better suited to socializing Charlie and acclimating him to living among other humans, and the science department has sociologists to consult as well.

Why should the duty fall to Kirk?

I don't think McCoy or Spock have the charisma to appeal to a teenager. And if anyone else did on board well Shatner wouldn't want them there.
Though I do agree McCoy was being a bit of a smartaleck. Kirk does have other things to do (or does he - what to captains do between missions?). Anyway I think that whoever they picked was going to have problems. If my teenage son had the power to blast me away for eternity with a thought I'd be long gone a million times. A million times because he'd regret what he'd done and bring me back because he needs/loves me. Charlie didn't have that connection with anyone. Didn't know that people start fearing you and hating you if you keep killing or maiming random people.
I don't know what they could have done with Charlie even if they had known about his powers in the beginning. He was like a Gary Mitchell or Voldemort. I think they would have always had to kill Charlie or abandon him on a planet depending on his range of powers. Just to save themselves and everyone else. Even if Charlie were the sweetest boy in the world.

 

[Maurice]

Kirk does have other things to do (or does he - what to captains do between missions?).

Paperwork. A shit ton of paperwork.

 

[Commander Troi]

 

[Henoch]

Paperwork. A shit ton of paperwork.

And a lot of Captain Logs...

 

[Noname Given]

Charlie *is* a victim of circumstance, but he's too dangerous to others to be out in the world. That's the tragedy of the story.

I think it's possible Charlie was an Esper, but it's also possible the Thasians were just that powerful. TOS never really got into it.

But I never understood about Charlie X even when I first saw the episode as a kid, if the Thasians, were powerful enough to give Charlie his powers originally, what would stop them from removing those powers?

Their explanation of: "We gave him the power so he could live..." falls flat once Charlie was back among his own kind.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

But I never understood about Charlie X even when I first saw the episode as a kid, if the Thasians, were powerful enough to give Charlie his powers originally, what would stop them from removing those powers?

Their explanation of: "We gave him the power so he could live..." falls flat once Charlie was back among his own kind.

The Thasian is trying to say he can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. He can't unscramble the egg or unburn the matchstick. That kind of thing.

 

[fireproof78]

But I never understood about Charlie X even when I first saw the episode as a kid, if the Thasians, were powerful enough to give Charlie his powers originally, what would stop them from removing those powers?

Their explanation of: "We gave him the power so he could live..." falls flat once Charlie was back among his own kind.

Unless taking away those powers would kill Charlie just due to his growing up with them. Like a shock to the system. Kind of defeats that Thasians purpose of helping him to live only to kill him by trying to take them away.

Has a bit of a Greek mythology type twist to it.

 

[Neopeius]

"Charlie X" is "It's A Good Life."

When he's on the Antares. Not when he's on the Enterprise.