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Spoilers Lord of the Rings TV series

I never claimed Shore referred to recurring themes as leitmotif but that is what they are called in music theory. All I typed initially was the word itself as I was pleased to hear the technique perpetuated by Bear McCreary. Do you think Shore would object to the use of that term for a major element of his compositional style that even predates Richard Wagner's application of it?
I think, as I said, the distinction is pedantic and misses the entire point of discussion. As for what Shore would think? He is on record, as I've noted with his own words, as referring to his own work in terms of theme, rather than leitmotif.

I've actually talked to Shore, in person, regarding these ideas (this was after LOTR but before The Hobbit films). So I would suggest that your attempts at shifting terminology are superficial, at best.
 
^ If you're making a filmed or staged version of a story but otherwise not changing anything about it, you're translating it, not adapting it.
No it is absolutely an adaption. And while that version is easily the most faithful to the source material it isn't a 100% translation of the text.

But in the industry it is absolutely an adaption.

Probably the closest thing in film that I considered more of a recreation then an adaption is the 1998 film Psycho, though still different from the original adapted film. The director did try to do a scene by scene recreation, but there are again differences. So its also an adaption.
 
"Clueless" is considered one of the best Austen adaptations? I mean . . . I just viewed it recently and it seemed "eh" to me.
I was fairly shocked by that result myself. Though I also don't pretend to be a staunch devote to Austin's work (though I do like a lot of it).

But for myself there are a host of films (let alone other mediums) that are adaptions of works and bare very only small similarities to the source material.

I mean seriously how many times has Shakespeare's work been adapted, both fairly faithful and very loosely. And almost no one thanks anything about it. Seem to be just fine with actually just judging the work for what it is not what its adapted from.
 
The series that really taught me to be more open minded with adaptations was the Harry Potter movies. The first two, The Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone, and The Chamber of Secrets, are probably the closest to the books, and they are also the worst two movies in the series. The series didn't really hit it's stride until the third movies, which is one of the best in the series, and is also the one with some of the most changes from the book.
 
^ If you're making a filmed or staged version of a story but otherwise not changing anything about it, you're translating it, not adapting it.

Of course it is an adaptation. Any time a story from one medium is translated to another changes and decisions need to be made. We have no idea what Mr. Darcy looks like so on screen or on the stage we are seeing a version of that character. Even if that character says all the exact lines of Mr. Darcy there is still the actors decisions on how to say those lines and interpretation of a director's decisions.

Some films can align very close with a novel's story and still miss the mark. For example, Coppola's detailed and "faithful" adaptation of The Great Gatsby gets the specifics of the story as close to what is seen on the page as any movie could and it stands as a great movie on its own, but somehow still manages to miss the subtext and pathos of the novel.
 
I've actually talked to Shore, in person, regarding these ideas (this was after LOTR but before The Hobbit films). So I would suggest that your attempts at shifting terminology are superficial, at best.
I expect Shore adjusts his terminology according to his audience. The average person in the street would not know what the word "leitmotif" means so I expect he would seek to avoid obfuscation. The word "theme" is less specific but it encompasses "leitmotif", which is a recurring theme that is associated with a particular character, concept or context in a work of literature or music. However, I admit I am a pedantic and pretentious blowhard.

The series that really taught me to be more open minded with adaptations was the Harry Potter movies. The first two, The Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone, and The Chamber of Secrets, are probably the closest to the books, and they are also the worst two movies in the series. The series didn't really hit it's stride until the third movies, which is one of the best in the series, and is also the one with some of the most changes from the book.
The change of director did seem to help. The movies became progressively darker in tone towards the events in Deathly Hallows as did the lighting in many of the scenes to the point of making the action almost invisible. However, I haven't read the books so I have no idea how faithful the movies are to the source material. Even if I had read the books, I doubt I would care about any changes. For some reason that I can't fathom, I do care about radical changes in adaptations of Tolkien's works that use them as vehicles to convey the adapters' own agendas. Peter Jackson avoided that for the most part, although he does seem to go unnecessarily over the top as a director on occasion. Dial it down, mate.
 
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I expect Shore adjusts his terminology according to his audience. The average person in the street would not know what the word "leitmotif" means so I expect he would seek to avoid obfuscation. The word "theme" is less specific but it encompasses "leitmotif", which is a recurring theme that is associated with a particular character, concept or context in a work of literature or music.
What audience is he "adjusting" to in a book specifically analyzing his work on LOTR, by an author he invited into his creative process? That he uses "theme" so readily and as a matter of course means that is how he thinks of his own work. If he wanted to describe his efforts in LOTR or to create new musical ideas on The Hobbit as leitmotif, he would have used that term. Instead he used theme both in conversation and in writing.

Are you suggesting that your perspective on theme and leitmotif is more accurate than Shore himself? If not, then I say we accept his descriptions and analyses of his own work and go from there.
 
Perhaps he finds terms such as "leitmotif" pretentious and unnecessary even for an academic audience? Perhaps he prefers to avoid loanwords - difficult when discussing music. I haven't read the book so I can't judge how he uses language. It doesn't make any difference nor is it of any importance.

I admit I am a pedantic and pretentious blowhard.
QED

ETA: Really, if Bezos really wanted his own Game of Thrones, an epic-scale adult fantasy adaptation, I would have preferred he had commission a series based on Jack Vance's The Dying Earth or Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern - but it seems like the rationale was that people will just pay to watch any old shit that Amazon churns out and attempting to leverage the popularity of Peter Jackson's movies seemed like a good way to go. We shall see just how good or bad the series is very soon. I hope my pessimism is unwarranted...
 
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Perhaps he finds terms such as "leitmotif" pretentious and unnecessary even for an academic audience? Perhaps he prefers to avoid loanwords - difficult when discussing music. I haven't read the book so I can't judge how he uses language. It doesn't make any difference nor is it of any importance.
I still maintain that he used leitmotif in the extended editions of The Lord of the Rings soundtracks but I don't have access to the booklets to prove it.

Why am I so certain? Because I'm 99% certain that's where I first encountered the term.

Honestly, I don't see why it's such a big deal here. Why can't Shore use both terms whenever he deems each of them suitable?
 
but it seems like the rationale was that people will just pay to watch any old shit that Amazon churns out and attempting to leverage the popularity of Peter Jackson's movies seemed like a good way to go.
Welcome to Hollywood. Yet the audience keeps rewarding such behaviors enough.
I mean seriously how many times has Shakespeare's work been adapted, both fairly faithful and very loosely. And almost no one thanks anything about it. Seem to be just fine with actually just judging the work for what it is not what its adapted from.
An excellent question though one I doubt will have a satisfactory explanation beyond what authors a person puts value on.

Even the films of Lord of the Rings take creative liberties with themes and pacing in their adaptive process. The Ringwraiths alone are completely out of step with Tolkien's vision.
 
I still maintain that he used leitmotif in the extended editions of The Lord of the Rings soundtracks but I don't have access to the booklets to prove it.

Why am I so certain? Because I'm 99% certain that's where I first encountered the term.
I heard the term used 50 years ago in reference to Wagner's Ring cycle (different ring obviously) but it seems the term was first applied to music composed by Carl Maria von Weber. Wagner preferred his own term "Hauptmotiv" (principal motif) to "Leitmotiv" (leading motif). I only have the standard soundtrack collection and that doesn't have a booklet. But, anyway, no big deal as you state.
 
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The series that really taught me to be more open minded with adaptations was the Harry Potter movies. The first two, The Sorcerer's/Philosopher's Stone, and The Chamber of Secrets, are probably the closest to the books, and they are also the worst two movies in the series. The series didn't really hit it's stride until the third movies, which is one of the best in the series, and is also the one with some of the most changes from the book.

I don't rewatch those movies or reread the books anymore because fuck JK Rowling, but come on

The Half Blood Prince is the absolute worst of those movies, and is also the one with the most changes, its not even close.
 
Re the new trailer: Finrod dies saving Beren in FA 465, about 1,725 years before the forging of the One Ring circa SA 1,600. That's a mighty long time. It does suggest why Galadriel might get a bit vengeful though it was one of Sauron's werewolves that killed her brother. Finrod alone of the exiled gets reembodied in the Halls of Mandos in Valinor and dwells with his betrothed Amarië and walks with his father Finarfin beneath the trees in Eldamar. Perhaps Galadriel is overreatcing although she probably doesn't know he is allowed to resurrect.
 
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