Spoilers Season 3 wild speculation

[Tuskin38]

TMP specifically states the Enterprise has been refit entirely, to the point Kirk can't even find his way around the ship. TNG's "Relics", DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" and ENT's "In a Mirror, Darkly" all show TOS style Constitution class ships without revisionist interpretation. The collection of past ships named Enterprise in the TNG observation lounge shows a TOS Enterprise, not a Discoprise. Riker's quarters in season 1 has a Shuttlecraft Galileo model. Essentially retconning TOS can't be done in isolation without impacting the visual continuity of the Berman Trek era shows as well.

Whereas ENT fixed most of it's perceived contradictions with TOS in season 4. STD and SNW on the other hand go far beyond even being a visual reboot, and can't be so easily handwaved away.

Discovery season 2 also showed the original (not even TOS remastered) Enterprise design in previously on footage of The Cage, though the shot of the Enterprise did not come from The Cage. Lower Decks, Picard Season 2 and Prodigy have all had the TOS Connie design show up.

Though the appearance in Picard S2 is barely visible. Only clear shot is from BTS images.

Both designs are still valid. Both exist in canon.

View it like a recasting. The Enterprise is now played by a different actor, but it is still the same ship.

 

[fireproof78]

Whereas ENT fixed most of it's perceived contradictions with TOS in season 4. STD and SNW on the other hand go far beyond even being a visual reboot, and can't be so easily handwaved away.

Absolutely it can. It requires flexibility and willingness to embrace the new rather than entrenched attitudes.

 

[New Kid 99]

I can handwave pretty easily, actually.

 

[Nerys Myk]

TMP specifically states the Enterprise has been refit entirely, to the point Kirk can't even find his way around the ship. TNG's "Relics", DS9's "Trials and Tribble-ations" and ENT's "In a Mirror, Darkly" all show TOS style Constitution class ships without revisionist interpretation. The collection of past ships named Enterprise in the TNG observation lounge shows a TOS Enterprise, not a Discoprise. Riker's quarters in season 1 has a Shuttlecraft Galileo model. Essentially retconning TOS can't be done in isolation without impacting the visual continuity of the Berman Trek era shows as well.

Not sure what that line has to do with the designers of Star Trek abandoning the TOS aesthetic for TMP and later TWOK and TNG. IIRC. there were "revisions" in IAMD". "T&T" might have some, too.
How would a set made in the 80s or 90s have a prop made in the 2020s? TOS is full of different models of the Enterprise depending on which one was used for a shot. Were we slipping into a different universe each time they switched models? What about the Enterprise-C? IIRC, the model in the display is not the same design as the one used in "Yesterday's Enterprise".
They're TV shows made decades apart. They aren't going back to the 60s, 80s or 90s when designing props, sets and uniforms for modern productions. They will take inspiration from them. Roll with it. Become open minded. Become the sort people Star Trek talks about.

 

[The Wormhole]

As to people going to war over a TV show, Star Trek does have a fractured fanbase.

My word, you keep going on as though Star Trek Fandom is headed towards its own January 6th.

That's not happening anytime soon, or ever.

 

[Tuskin38]

Star Trek has been fractured since 1979

Maybe even earlier.

 

[Danja]

My word, you keep going on as though Star Trek Fandom is headed towards its own January 6th.

That's not happening anytime soon, or ever.

Barring the faction that wants Alex Kurtzman drawn, quartered, impaled on a pike, and paraded down Hollywood Boulevard for crimes against Trek.

 

[NCC-73515]

We're far from people screaming "Hang Pike, mens"...

 

[Dukhat]

Can we just ignore this guy now?

Edit: He appears to have edited out the worst of it. Now it's just complaining about design aesthetics again, so... whatever.

Um, no. He has a right to speak his opinion about the show just like you do.

 

[WarMaster1701]

Which youtubers are attacking RMB?

 

[James Cole]

Um, no. He has a right to speak his opinion about the show just like you do.

Thanks, but I'll look for a better location to further discuss Picard season 3. TrekBBS literature section is great, but this just isn't productive, and my trying to answer individual questions is taking the thread off topic.

In passing I'll say this:

• Kurtzman Trek has taken a drastically different approach to continuity than anything produced before. Star Trek fans have been massively hung up on continuity for decades, and what's happened post 2017 makes any previous changes microscopic in comparison. Such drastic changes are bound to cause debate.
• The culture war does play a component in the reaction to Kurtzman Trek, especially as it has shifted to reflecting a partisan mindset that only around 8% of the population follows vs the broader political allegory used in earlier Trek. But a thread speculating on Picard season 3 really isn't the place to elaborate on this. Maybe Reddit...
• Season 3 showrunner Terry Matalas has engaged with Kurtzman Trek critics, like with the Inglorious Treksperts and RMB. This indicates a potential shift in the show's structure and content, which should be open for analysis, as it becomes increasingly likely RMB has seen 90% of season 3... and would be dropping hints on YouTube that most people might miss. I'm a fan of both Terry Matalas and RMB, so on paper I thought this could be an interesting discussion for the rest of the year, especially if Matalas drops hints via 12 Monkeys allegories on Twitter.
• I think STD is really bad and is damaging to the Star Trek brand as a whole. SNW is half as bad, but still has massive tone and continuity problems. YouTubers have the right to attack the shows over bad writing, throwing out continuity etc. But I disagree with YouTubers that have hundreds of thousands of subs wanting to boycott Picard season 3 in bad faith -- especially if it is "good". There is likely a large group of fans that were both (a) alienated by earlier Kurtzman efforts but (b) don't want burn everything down like the black pills and would just like "good Star Trek". It would be great to have more voices like that out there.

 

[fireproof78]

think STD is really bad and is damaging to the Star Trek brand as a whole.

How?

 

[Tuskin38]

I think STD is really bad and is damaging to the Star Trek brand as a whole.

Nope. Discovery revived the brand.

Thanks, but I'll look for a better location to further discuss Picard season 3.

So you're looking for an echo chamber?

 

[Dukhat]

Nope. Discovery revived the brand.

It did. That doesn't mean that it's infallible to criticism.

So you're looking for an echo chamber?

There's no need to be rude.

 

[Tuskin38]

That doesn't mean that it's infallible to criticism.

I never said it was.

 

[fireproof78]

I never said it was.

Discovery is a flawed show, though the flaws strike me as in line with a lot of shows.

Doesn't meant it caused harm to Star Trek's brand.

 

[Dukhat]

I'm happy to get back to talking about PIC season 3 speculation.

 

[fireproof78]

I'm happy to get back to talking about PIC season 3 speculation.

Ok. How do you think Season 3 will harm the Star Trek brand?

 

[New Kid 99]

Um, no. He has a right to speak his opinion about the show just like you do.

Ignoring someone doesn't infringe their rights to speak. It just means I choose not to engage them.

I was suggesting we not take the "star trek is too political sjw wokety-woke blah blah" troll bait. Since he deleted the comments and I'm apparently the only one who saw them, it's a moot point now anyway.

I come across too strong, that's my fault. It seems like every time I find a place to talk about the pop culture I love, someone comes along and brings in the culture wars. My exasperation probably shows through. I, too, am happy to get back to season 3 speculations.

 

[New Kid 99]

Thanks, but I'll look for a better location to further discuss Picard season 3. TrekBBS literature section is great, but this just isn't productive, and my trying to answer individual questions is taking the thread off topic.

I hope you have better luck there.