No one ever said one had to be a Jedi to produce Force-sensitive children, so that particular tenet of the Jedi beliefs is not compromised.
Spoilers 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' series [Spoiler Discussion]
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No one ever said one had to be a Jedi to produce Force-sensitive children, so that particular tenet of the Jedi beliefs is not compromised.
She's the daughter of royalty, not some random kid. Wars have been started for less.
I think “When I left you” is always going to read as referring to Mustafar, no matter how many encounters or rematches they have in the meantime. It’s sort of the inverse of the Clone Wars continually shrinking the period during which Anakin’s powers could have “doubled” since he last fought Dooku. Vader is convinced at the Death Star that, unlike last time, whenever that may have been, he’s finally flipped the script and only now has the upper hand he lacked the first time he and Kenobi fought.
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I could argue that he became Sith, or at the very least, stopped being Jedi, the moment he started banging Padme in secret.
I'd call it the moment he massacred the Tuskens. Although those two events were pretty close together, chronologically.
then why bring them up?
For the most part I'd say they were appointed, not elected. In practical terms they're closer to UN Ambassadors than Senators in that they're representing a government, not the constituents directly. Even so I'm pretty sure the appointment of a Senator is up to the government of each system/sector constituency to determine; though election or appointment, I don't think the Republic Senate itself care how they get there, so long as the post is filled.
FWIW I'm pretty sure AotC states that Amidala was asked to take up the post of Senator by the new Queen; not something she ran a campaign for.
This is one of those lines that's been given way more weight than it warrants.
In it's original context, Vader was "a pupil of [Ben's], until he turned to evil", so the clear intent was in reference to when he left Kenobi's tutelage, whenever that was.
As things stand now, I see no reason why it has to be any different; as in it refers to when Anakin was Knighted. "Leaving" him as in no longer his apprentice, which is more literal than one might think since Padawans basically live with their Masters. They may have their own chambers while at the temple, but most of their time is spent at their Master's side. That's kind of how historical apprenticeships worked.
Yes he saw Obi-Wan all the time and worked with him a lot during the Clone Wars, but that's akin to still seeing your parents/family regularly after going off to college and beyond. One doesn't have to be completely separated, never to interact again to have "left".
Once Knighted, Anakin was his own person . . . for about eight months, then Yoda lumbered him with a padawan to follow him around wherever he went. Of course her "leaving" was way more absolute, but it was a very different situation.
Anakin was always less powerful than Obi-Wan right up to their final pre-cyborg confrontation on Mustafar. So from that point of view he was right. Obi-Wan left him burnt half to death and missing three limbs and utterly defeated, even taking his lightsaber. By the time of ANH his physical skills and mastery of the Dark Side had grown past his former Master's Force abilities in terms of visceral and tangible effects like destructive power. Episode 6 or even another season of the series can add more context to that line but, yeah, it still works fine as just a reference to the Mustafar battle, which was the last time Obi-Wan ever saw his former Padawan as a human being.
Less wise, not less powerful. Anakin was acknowledged as the most powerful Jedi in the order, perhaps excepting Yoda and Mace Windu. That's in terms of raw power, of course, nothing more.
Obi-wan defeats Anakin on Mustafar by virtue of the fact that he knows Anakin and his style intimately, and it's easier to prevail against someone who has given themselves over to a blind rage, regardless of how much stronger they are. The whole 'high ground' thing was weak sauce writing to attempt to explain how Obi-wan could defeat him in the first place. It was unnecessary- Obi-wan gave himself a tactical advantage and then exploited it when Anakin bull-rushed him- again- instead of leaping safely off the side to re-engage from a better position. It was more a matter of wits, tactics, and patience than raw power or skill. Unless you want to take Obi-wan's remark about the high ground as him cleverly goading Anakin into another rash act: exploiting his 'need for victory,' as it were.
Lack of growth is a Sith trait it seems, despite what they think. Indeed there's a reason why Maul's whole story has been described as sisyphusean.
In this instance, I think the point is more about how unlike Vader who is stuck in the past, Obi-wan is capable of moving forwards and rising above. A subtle distinction, but one with an important emphasis.
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The UN is not a ruling body. The Republic Senate (as was the Roman Senate and the US Senate) is. So your analogy isn't quite precise.
We don't know, of course, if the position is elected or appointed. Heck, each planet might have their own method for choosing their representative.
But the Senate itself IS a representative democratic body.
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Fair enough. Good points. I know his midichlorian count exceeds even Yoda's so on that basis alone he would be the most powerful Jedi in raw, untapped terms.
Because I am lazy.
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I know the Sith body hopping bullshit is hard to remember, because it's shit.
There is no Sith Culture, or Sith History, or maybe it's just deceptively small and short.
Sith Culture and Sith History is just one dude who eats children, and the more children he eats the longer he lives.
The last Jedi is awful.
That was what I was trying to explain to @TREK_GOD_1 ... those Flashbacks were Vader remembering that lesson he did NOT truly learn as a Padawan and just got schooled AGAIN by Obi Wan. So though no one else knew it... Vader felt like a student again. But now after THIS encounter... Vader grows into the Master (in his mind).
I don't expect Vader and Obi Wan to meet again until A New Hope
Unambiguous dialogue cannot be glossed over; Vader saying "When I left you.." points to a fixed time or moment in their history, and its beyond debate that in the AOTC-era flashbacks, Anakin was nowhere near leaving Obi-Wan to be a full knight (or even at the point of embracing the Dark Side in ROTS).
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