Agency isn't the Mandalorian's strong suit.
Spoilers 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' series [Spoiler Discussion]
- Thread starter Reverend
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I think it depends...when Pizza Hut came out with hot dog stuffed crust pizza...THAT is a classic example of "no one asked for this" (especially in CHicago). (This also qualifies has "reasons why weed should be illegal
)People can throw around that reasoning though, when THEY didn't ask for it (and their close friends), but there might be segment s who definitely do. And certainly there was a lot of excitement, but at least a significant (if not majority) number of fans.
Just to retcon it... since Luke (at the time) seemed to be the only force user with a chance of defeating Vader... what WHAT certainly didn't matter (since it wa sobvious he had it), as long as he was able to use it. With Anakin...there were so many Jedi.. at the time, he would have been rejected...but the midiclorian count was "needed" to "prove" how powerful ANakin was. But that was really unnecessary and shouldn't have been added. And i am glad it has been generally ignored
I don't see this as being about Reva per se...just that she has been made a very compelling villain, to me. Like how Tobias Whale as portrayed in the Black Lightning TV show by Krondon, was an excellent adversary for our heroes (despite a little hiccup in there about his obession with his sister).
I am fine with her being beat by Vader so easily.... it shows her young brashness (perhaps how Vader remembers himself)...but was very capable earlier on. At some point in Star Wars history, she will die....but i would be fine to have her around for season 2.
For me, I really love her character, and feel Moses Ingram has done an excellent job with her. I didn't look into it, but what was they deal with the racism?
I am surprised no one has really mentioned how part 5 has addressed some of the inconsistencies people were worried about.
We see the return of the Grand Inquisitor, so that canon violation isn't violated.
And with the flashbacks , we can see why Vader said that the last time he met Kenobi, he was the student and Kenobi was the master ... makes total sense now. No violation there either.
As for how Hayden looks... i have a 15 years old 55 inch flat panel.... he seemed fine to me. Now, i am approaching 50, so i ain't too concerned about matching years ago...and really based on Rogue 1 and Mando...i am happy they did NOT use de-aging,
This was a better flashback than i have also seen in Korean Historical Dramas.
One thing though...despite Leia's snarky coment about Ben looking like her grandpa...Ewan still looks pretty young.... wondering if he will ever get zapped with Force Lightning or something to become a little older? And will we see him interact with Mos Eisley again, so he him A New Hope's comments will have some more depth?
Yes.
The PT could have handled this so much better, and without Midichlorians. All it needed was for Qui-gon to pause and look long and hard at Anakin the first time they met, and mutter something under his breath like: "The Force is strong with this one!" Then a conversation over the comlink with Obi-wan about it, and Obi-wan doing a slight eye-widening sort of reaction when he first meets Anakin, and exchanging a pointed look with Qui-gon, who nods and says something like: "You obviously see what I was talking about..."
In the trench scene in ANH, no Midichlorian counts were needed either. Vader was in hot pursuit of Luke, and could sense it from a distance: "The Force is strong in this one!"
I still see a significant difference between ROTJ's "The Force is strong in my family," and taking blood samples for scientific analysis and quantification to determine someone's Force potential. But I think that PT approach to "The Force" actually works just fine in that setting, because it's yet another indication that the Jedi Order was losing sight of the spiritual dimension of it all.
Without the whole midi-chlorian angle, it could just be accepted that "The Force" runs stronger in certain individuals or certain family lines, without a "scientific" understanding of exactly why, or without clear correlations with any particular biological factors. And Force sensitivity/ability does not always get passed genetically, as seen with Palpatine's son who was made with Palpatine's genetic template. Then there were countless younglings taken in by the Jedi Order over the centuries, who must have had their Force sensitivity/ability arise in them spontaneously instead of inheriting it directly from their parent(s).
Anyways, back to Obi-Wan Kenobi... I hope that the final episode has some kind of crisis that makes Obi-Wan think it's urgent to get Anakin's saber to Luke and begin his training. "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it."
Kor
Without the whole midi-chlorian angle, it could just be accepted that "The Force" runs stronger in certain individuals or certain family lines, without a "scientific" understanding of exactly why, or without clear correlations with any particular biological factors. And Force sensitivity/ability does not always get passed genetically, as seen with Palpatine's son who was made with Palpatine's genetic template. Then there were countless younglings taken in by the Jedi Order over the centuries, who must have had their Force sensitivity/ability arise in them spontaneously instead of inheriting it directly from their parent(s).
Anyways, back to Obi-Wan Kenobi... I hope that the final episode has some kind of crisis that makes Obi-Wan think it's urgent to get Anakin's saber to Luke and begin his training. "Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it."
Kor
It was simply another one of Obi-wan's little conceits- a bit of wishful thinking, that if Anakin had lived and remained true to the light side, he would have wanted his padawan son to have his lightsaber. Obviously it cannot be taken literally based on what we know.
Plus, taken chronologically when this was written, Vader was not yet Luke's father, or Leia his sister.
..and the "future" of the PT, yet Lucas added Midichlorians to the PT when at not point anyone--not Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke, Vader or the Emperor ever mentions something sold as so important in TPM. Its the same film series, so a lack of consistency is all too apparent.
...or New Coke, or Stayin' Alive (the 1983 sequel to Saturday Night Fever), or Grease 2, or...
The difference there is that Whale was so intrinsically tied to Jefferson's "origin" with the murder of Alvin Pierce, and still forced his criminal hand on Freeland (and beyond) over the decades (and in ways that directly impacted the Pierce family), that it was quite natural for Whale to have so significant a presence / drive many of Black Lightning's plots: he's one of the reasons Jefferson ended up using his power for good in the first place.
Well, she had to be defeated with ease, otherwise, there would be no conflict for Reva--not just with Vader, but the other Inquisitors (who disrespect just about everything about her), in time for the series finale.
Pick a rant: either they're bitching that Ingram:
- ...is a so-called "diversity hire" (while claiming they had no problem with Lando or Mace, which is the racist fanboy's equivalent of "I can't be racist, because I have a black friend")...
- ...or they're claiming she does not act like someone should in a Star Wars story (coded language for they think she acts "black" as if there is a universal standard for that--other than their stereotyped definition)...
- ...or that Reva was designed to play the so-called woke card by having her seemingly be stronger than white male Kenobi, since he ran from her (ignoring that he's both still trying to keep his identity a secret and he's lost touch with his faith and by extension, his abilities).
Not really. The flashbacks take place in the AOTC era, and at that point, Anakin had not left Kenobi, and would not for several more years. By the time of ROTS, Anakin had become so arrogant about his new Sith powers, that he felt (more than usual) that he was beyond Kenobi as a practitioner of the Force. So in comparison to Kenobi, ROTS-Vader did not feel he was a "learner" to Kenobi...unless this series has Vader specifically refer to how he felt immediately after his defeat at the hands of Kenobi on Mustafar (IOW, he thought he was the master until defeated, which humbled him into thinking he still had much to learn).
Well stated.
To be fair, I think the original trilogy itself negated the idea of Anakin wanting Luke to have his saber someday. Obi-Wan's line to Luke in ROTJ, "You were hidden from your father when you were born," indicates that Anakin/Vader initially did not know he had any children in existence.
Kor
It's a "point of view" kind of thing, like Darth Vader murdering Anakin.
True enough, but the PT made it worse.
Yeah, and it's a horrible bit of discontinuity.
Morpheus 02 said:
The only one? But how could such a desperate scenario ever come to pass, if literally anyone can do what the Jedi do?
There's no lack of consistency. You can't get to inconsistency from the mere fact of someone not mentioning something. One trilogy tells of inherited Force sensitivity; the other gives the details. Besides, Palpatine does mention them - just not in the place where you want him to.( Context matters. )
Even if Whale wasn't tied to Jefferson's origins, Krondon did such a great job that he was an excellent antagonist, just as I see how Moses Ingram did as Reva.
Jill Scott ALSO did such a great job that she could have been a primary antagonist as well. (It was a shame she never appeared in season 4, and we got the bootleg stand-in).
We need some inquisitors to hunt them down.... not to kill them (i wanna make that clear)...but racists "get away with it" when we leave them under the hood/trooper helmet... they need to be SPECIFICALLY called out...i think the number is waaay lower than the outrage magnifies them to be.
The juxtaposition of the flashback with the defeat of Vader made it clear that Vader's loss was the same as when he was a padawan (a learner). Vader fell to the same mistake that Kenobi had tried to teach him way back when.
But by New Hope, he has learned... also Reva's tracking showed itself to be a wise strategy that he used later. So again, Vader actually learned from this experience.
The dominant narrative is that the Empire I'd hunting Jedi using Inquisitors, and Darth Vader is specifically trying to hunt down Obi-Wan Kenobi. Reva is hunting Obi-Wan BECAUSE she wants to become close/trusted enough to have an opportunity to kill him (and when finally presented with that opportunity in a way she didn't expect), she failed.
That said the totally of the narrative has been showing the majority of things from Obi-Wan's perspective and he's been front and center in EVERY episode <--- So yeah sorry, but the idea his narrative is being presented as secondary to Reva's; and that somehow she's THE main character in this series is ridiculous.
Yes, her character has a large role, but it isn't the MAIN role OR main story at all.
Weren’t jedis not supposed to have children or at least not supposed to be attached to them?
way back then, back when the Original Trilogy was the only trilogy, before the special edition, I was under the impression that Anakin knew he had a son and wanted him to become a Jedi one day. He didn’t know where he ended up and if he was still alive. Of course he doesn’t seem to know anything about Leia, who, on the other hand, seems to have spent at least some time with her real mother…
There is a definite, strong, racist thread running through certain quarters of Star Wars fandom, hence one of the reasons Lucasfilm preemptively warned Ingram about the racism she would face:
Lucasfilm Warned ‘Obi-Wan’ Star Moses Ingram About Racist ‘Star Wars’ Hate: It Will ‘Likely Happen’
...and McGregor's statements about racist Star Wars fans...
...to Ingram's own accounts of the racism she's faced...
Of course, Disney/Star Wars had their own issues with race (reducing or eliminating the size of John Boyega's image on the sequel trilogy posters in China--and Boyega's own criticisms about the differences in treatment he--and his character faced as opposed to Ridley, Driver, et al.), not to mention the fiery wave of outrage at the very sight of Finn as a Stormtrooper in The Force Awakens' trailer.
Ah, but the line in Star Wars cannot be glossed over: "When I left you...". Again, the flashback was from the AOTC period--a point where Anakin was nowhere near graduating from being Obi-Wan's Padawan, so the flashback cannot be what Vader referred to in Star Wars. Either one retcons the Star Wars line to refer to his feeling he was not the "master" he thought he was when facing Kenobi on Mustafar (which would make sense), or the Kenobi series needs to have one additional confrontation between the two, where the back-in-form Kenobi bests the arrogant Vader once again.
Well, if you're referring to the tracking device implanted in Leia's droid, I won't go as far as to say Vader learned tracking from the experience / actions of Reva; its a common tactic (and plot device: Obi-Wan used it on the Slave One in AOTC), and one has to imagine the Empire would have employed tracking devices all along, so I doubt it was something Vader was unaware of until Reva explained what she did.
One problem with using Leia as bait to lure out Obi-Wan, seems to be that - now that they know it works, they could just keep kidnapping her over and over again, like with Bowser and Princess Peach in the Mario games.
Yeah, at this point I don't see how Leia and her family even survive the next decade. They are OUTED.
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