Why?
SNW truly respects TOS continuity!
- Thread starter C.E. Evans
- Start date
She's going to turn into that Chapel. It's sort of in her future. It's going to happen.
That's a ridiculous argument.
That's a ridiculous argument.
Ah, but it is a correct assessment. This Chapel has nothing in common with the TOS Chapel. They are different characters. With Uhura and Spock, you can see the start of the journey to their TOS personas. With Chapel it is a completely different feel. Majel's Chapel was a very 60's woman and this Chapel is a very 21st century woman. They aren't compatible characters and I wish they had created a fresh character.
Yup. People truly underestimate how much a person can change in a short course of time.
Who cares? Bush's version is better in every way than Barrett's.
And I would agree that fans can't agree on the broad strokes that make something fit in canon. For me it is the overall body of work that creates the characters, environment, and culture. I feel Discovery failed on all counts. I think that SNW has come back closer to the TOS/TMP/TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT canon, but it is a visual reboot and there are enough other things to call it a full reboot that is honoring that old canon, while not being enslaved to it. I love the show and I love that it has found the TOS Trek formula and is successfully replicating it with each episode. I like how there are some modern arcs that carry over from episode to episode while allowing the series to remain episodic. I hope the series lasts for a long time and I would enjoy seeing Kirk take command and the rest of the familiar characters show up. It would be nice to include the WNMHGB characters in the late Pike, early Kirk stories. I think this production team is making the world their own which is, to me, what a reboot is. They are following enough of the broad strokes that many feel it is just a different skin on the classic series. But they aren't following enough for me to feel that way. I feel that TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT each gave us part of the TOS formula without finding all of it. I feel that SNW has found all of it which is more important to me than following the TOS canon precisely. I can enjoy this like I haven't enjoyed official Trek since TNG season 5. But following canon, no, to me it is solidly a reboot. But I love it.
I won't disagree, but it is one of the things that makes me label it a reboot instead of following canon.
That's attributing more depth, nuance and characterization to TOS Chapel than was ever evidenced on screen.
Label it a ham sandwich if you want to. It's neither.
What it actually is, is a Star Trek TV series set aboard the Enterprise during the years Pike commanded the ship. It features several characters who appeared in the original series.
Fans don't get to vote on whether that's true or not.
I label TMP a reboot. Also TWOK. Definitely Corbomite Maneuver from WNMHGB.
Tell me if any of those stick.
Tell me if any of those stick.
Canon isn't there to be followed. It just is. The people in charge will take from it what they need to tell a story. To me the Kirk we see in the films is different than the one seen on TV. Heck TWOK Khan has very little in common with Space Seed Khan, IMO. Doesn't make the films a reboot.
And TOS Season 1 Kirk and Movie Kirk are very different people. But the same person.
So what you are saying is that there is a shared universion between Trek, Cinderella, and Rent?
How does Cats, St Elsewhere, and Holby City fit in?
But yes - exactly what you said.
"Where do Cats, St Elsewhere, and Holby City want to fit in?"
"Wink of an Eye" is a reboot, from a certain point of view.
I feel like *Random Alien of the Week* was trying to get Spot to speak, having seen Cats and thinking the animal itself could talk.
They chase Spot onto the D's bridge and he scampers over a console, thus triggering a core breach and (milk) saucer separation.
The D's saucer section is then flung by the core breach a la Generations, with obligatory "Shiiiiiiiiiit!" from Data and hits Holby City Hospital, thus leading to a tie in episode where they have to evacuate all their patients to the only other hospital on the planet that can handle such an emergency - St Elsewhere.
This leads to a massive investigation though with the guys from SVU and X Files getting involved and revealing that the truth was out there
Yeah, we do. When someone new takes over the reins, we get to judge if what they make fits or not. And I'm trying my best to not be unreasonable. But the changes, both visually and to the continuity, make it unreconcilable with the original. A reboot can be unreconcilable and still be great. If you note, they never said it was the same canon, only the same timeline. A reboot can also follow the same timeline while not following all the points of canon of the original.
I don't know how, but you quoted someone else.
Well, you are wrong on one point. Canon is what has come before, but to maintain continuity, you have to follow canon when you make something new, or come up with a reason for the change. In TMP there are reasons for the changes. Kirk was promoted to Admiral and has been out of the game for 2 years (and very similar in TWOK). Khan has been trapped on a destroyed planet for 15 years in TWOK. Time can change people and in these cases the changes are part of the story. How to you get from The Cage to Where No Man Has Gone Before and the rest of TOS through Discovery and SNW? How? The production put 10 years between The Cage and WNMHGB. The change in the Klingons was not addressed for a long time. The first we get is Chang in TUC, whose ridges are so subtle that if he had TOS style hair they would be covered and he would look human. Then Worf says they don't talk about it before Enterprise addressed it. So even that was addressed. But for Discovery we have physically different Klingons, a very different culture in season 1. Season 2 is closer, but still off.
And the visuals are so totally different. They aren't even just a modern update, they are a total redesign. The phaser is halfway between the Cage and TOS phaser and WNMHGB uses The Cage phaser as do a few other characters where the Discovery phaser has a few design elements that merge the two but looks like a movie era phaser. Most of Discovery and SNW look like the movie era. And no reason or logic to the changes has been put forward. You wouldn't refit a ship and then put it back 10 years later. CBS imposed the changes from the top. The production may have wanted to do otherwise originally, but they weren't allowed to. SNW gets closer to the original but still isn't. And then there are all the story points. It ends up feeling and looking like a reboot. It is a mystery to me why so many just outright reject that idea. When you look at all the reboots out there, the Discovery/SNW change are enough to make it a reboot by any standard. And CBS hasn't explicitly stated that it isn't, only that it is following the original timeline, which it is clear they are at least sort of trying to do.
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