Spoilers What is the connection between Doctor Soong and Khan Singh?

[Therin of Andor]

I don’t think it was an Easter egg. The file looked old, and the 1996 date matches the old-style Manila folder the paper file was kept in.

So how is such a carefully curated prop not an Easter egg?

Sure, I can accept that logic. However, the fact that there had to be at least one ‘war’ that caused Khan and his followers to escape Earth in 1996 makes moving the rest of the wars into the 21st century kind of pointless.

To reflect real life. So not pointless. Attempting to answer fan complaints both for and against changing "canon".

We somehow how managed not to notice the behing-the-scenes wars up to 1996 (but explained in the first Khan novel) and we are probably heading to more real-life battles now.

 

[fireproof78]

To reflect real life. So not pointless. Attempting to answer fan complaints both for and against changing "canon".

I wish them luck because it clearly isn't working.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I wish them luck because it clearly isn't working.

Working just fine for me. Canonistas just need to relax. (Richard Arnold is gone now.)

If we want new Trek stories, as the audience continues to age and diversify, and as society changes, we need to accept that Trek will continue to evolve.

 

[fireproof78]

Working just fine for me. Canonistas just need to relax. (Richard Arnold is gone now.)

If we want new Trek stories, as the audience continues to age and diversify, and as society changes, we need to accept that Trek will continue to evolve.

I agree. In a franchise supposedly about embracing diversity and change and evolution the tendency to get stuck on the minutia is quite strange.

 

[Dukhat]

So how is such a carefully curated prop not an Easter egg?

I suppose that would depend on your definition of 'easter egg.' Here's mine: Something that was meant as a joke and not meant to be taken seriously. Such as seeing R2D2 in the wreckage of the Federation starships over Vulcan in Star Trek '09.

In this instance, there was no joke. Adam Soong pulled that old file out of his desk for a reason. And it was dated 1996 for a reason. Whether that reason is because they're trying to retcon the Eugenics Wars to take place later and Khan was just escaping Earth before they happened, doesn't really matter, because...(see next.)

To reflect real life. So not pointless. Attempting to answer fan complaints both for and against changing "canon".

We somehow how managed not to notice the behind-the-scenes wars up to 1996 (but explained in the first Khan novel) and we are probably heading to more real-life battles now.

Except no matter how hard they try, or how far into the future they retcon the Eugenics Wars, this show is still not reflecting 'real life.' There's no way anyone will be sending a manned mission to Europa in just two years from now. We can barely get another person to our own Moon by the next ten, and even if we did, that person will probably be from the Chinese Space Agency. And we certainly aren't going to have any upcoming wars that have anything to do with genetically-engineered supermen.

So trying to retcon the wars is a pointless endeavor, IMHO. If they'd just made SNW a reboot like it so clearly is already, then they wouldn't even need to bother retconning anything. But their insistent need to link the show to TOS and try to 'fix' historical inaccuracies from that show, while at the same time making other things different with no explanation at all, makes very little sense to me.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think of Easter eggs as “in-jokes” rather than “jokes”…

“Easter egg (media) is a term used to describe a message, image or feature hidden in a video game, film, or other that's usually an electronic medium. It's those little sneaky hidden messages in your favourite film that you love to spot and makes you go ‘ahhhh, clever!’.

Quick Google quote.

 

[Dukhat]

That's just semantics. 'Joke' and 'in-joke' mean the same thing in this context.

 

[Therin of Andor]

That's just semantics. 'Joke' and 'in-joke' mean the same thing in this context.

No. A joke is typically funny and for everyone. An in-joke is something left just for insiders. And not necessarily hilarious.

 

[Dukhat]

No. A joke is typically funny and for everyone. An in-joke is something left just for insiders. And not necessarily hilarious.

I stand corrected. Based on your definition, you see the Khan Project folder dated 1996 as an in-joke. I see it as part of the overall Soong family legacy which will continue with the Arik Soong arc in ENT. So if that’s an in-joke to you, fine. The person I was replying to about this was making it sound like it had nothing to do with the story. Like how R2D2 had nothing to do with the wrecked ships above Vulcan. But he was wrong.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I stand corrected. Based on your definition, you see the Khan Project folder dated 1996 as an in-joke. So if that’s an in-joke to you, fine.

In an earlier post I already said I thought the dates on the folder suggested that the Arik Soong storyline was being set up. Not that Khan was about to be conceived.

But the dates are not random. And for some they are an Easter egg.

 

[Tuskin38]

Geoffrey Mandel posted his art for the folder on facebook, and it doesn't even include the start date, only the end date. Guess it was something added by the prop team

 

[Kor]

Maybe the "Project Khan" folder is a retcon to now say that the project created Khan in 1996. So if the Eugenics Wars will now be happening in the the later 2020s, he will be the right age to take a leading role.

Kor

 

[Yistaan]

Arik Soong says that the Botany Bay was a myth in Enterprise. However, curiously enough he'd be descended from one of the few people who might know that Botany Bay was real.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Eugenics Wars haven't been moved.

There's the ones from 1992-96, and others in the 21st century. Hence the plural form, WARS.

Easy peasy.

Besides, you can't retcon something away that was nailed down to a specific calendar year. It was flat out stated in TOS that Khan's wars were from 1992 to 1996, and in TWOK Khan says that the Botany Bay was launched in 1996. You can't just ignore that.

Relative references, like "200 years ago" and "100 years ago" and all that, can be adjusted as needed. Calendar years are definitive.

 

[Tuskin38]

The Eugenics Wars haven't been moved.

The producers have said otherwise.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The producers have said otherwise.

*pause*

Oh, I'm sorry, I was right in the middle of not giving a crap.

 

[fireproof78]

Besides, you can't retcon something away that was nailed down to a specific calendar year. It was flat out stated in TOS that Khan's wars were from 1992 to 1996, and in TWOK Khan says that the Botany Bay was launched in 1996. You can't just ignore that.

Well, you can.

And then there are the arguments, and the wailing, and weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Snark aside, the honest answer is that they can ignore it, and we fans can ignore what they say. It's a mutual ignoring.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's a mutual ignoring.

I'm down with that.

The way I see it, the upside of me ignoring what some producer says, is that "Space Seed" and TWOK don't need to be decanonized. Funny old world, ain't it?

 

[fireproof78]

I'm down with that.

The way I see it, the upside of me ignoring what some producer says, is that "Space Seed" and TWOK don't need to be decanonized. Funny old world, ain't it?

None of it needs to be decanoized. That's a silly notion that fans insist upon applying to a fictional structure. Though, I believe they would be in good company with Christopher Tolkien, whom caused is father quite the level of consternation for his dad daring to get a character's eye color wrong...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

None of it needs to be decanonized.

So how would YOU explain the discrepancy, then?

TWOK, for example, says 1996. If that's no longer true...then how much ELSE in the film isn't?