Why was 7/C so disliked?

[suarezguy]

The relationship did definitely come suddenly but I thought in both "Human Error" and "Endgame" it was plausible enough and pretty moving. Yet there generally seems to be, for a long time, a lot of slamming of that it was really dumb or crazy thrown in at last minute, some even saying offensive to viewers and fans.

Was it just too close too soon or just a case of it would have been a lot *better* if it *had been* more built up earlier? Or was the bashing largely from beliefs that they should have ended up with other people, anger that Janeway and Chakotay didn't end up together, or with no one, that Seven just shouldn't have had a romance with anyone at the end, should have remained more loner and still pretty alien, not that human yet?

 

[DonIago]

For me, mostly that it came out of nowhere and that the two of them didn't seem to have much chemistry together. Seven and The Doctor, or Janeway and Chakotay? Sure.

 

[Lynx]

For many reasons.
First: It was rushed and came out of nowhere.

Second: No chemistry at all between the characters.It hadn't been that for the whole series.

Third: It actually looked like the whole thing was a slap in the face from those in charge to all thise fans who wanted some sort of "happy ending" between Chakotay and Janeway.

Fourth: The whole episode sucked and this just made it even worse.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Admiral Janeway went back in time to break up Chakotay and Seven.

It's why she chose that moment to arrive in the past.

 

[NCC-73515]

I never saw a problem with it. Both were good choices for each other. Following the EMH's purely procreational lectures, Seven's efficiency drive made her pick the "masculine bear-like strong warrior", and Chakotay simply thought "I'm not gonna do a Harry and say no and run away"

Btw, can we call it the Kim maneuver?

 

[at Quark's]

For me it's basically two things you already mention, namely (1) I don't think 7 was ready in her personal growth to go into a relationship yet- it felt more like: quickly, Voyager is about to end, we should get her a lover because we can't let her end up alone! ('why not?' would have been my question) and (2) this particular coupling with Chakotay came unexpected. Never seen any indication these two might be drawn to one another.

I don't buy the Janeway/ Chakotay stuff. They had their chance to find a working model for 7 years, had they really wanted to. Also I see no reason why they 'should' end up with one another.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Chakotay has the second biggest room on the ship, that isn't a Cargo bay, but he doesn't have to share his bedroom with 5 children.

 

[Markonian]

this particular coupling with Chakotay came unexpected. Never seen any indication these two might be drawn to one another.

Wasn’t there a whole episode where Seven is playing dates with Chakotay? That set it up.

I’m thinking, does Chakotay not introducing himself as “Captain Hansen” on ST: Prodigy as Seven’s path on PIC rule out that they’re still together/married?

 

[at Quark's]

^That was episode 7x18 , i.e. only a few short weeks before the end. Short enough that to me it still felt as part of a rushed effort to 'get her settled'.

But I agree that it could be seen as an indication from 7's side she liked him, even though I also got the feeling from that episode she was just experimenting. Still I can't recall any indication from Chakotay's side.

 

[Summer Solstice]

The relationship did definitely come suddenly but I thought in both "Human Error" and "Endgame" it was plausible enough and pretty moving. Yet there generally seems to be, for a long time, a lot of slamming of that it was really dumb or crazy thrown in at last minute, some even saying offensive to viewers and fans.

Was it just too close too soon or just a case of it would have been a lot *better* if it *had been* more built up earlier? Or was the bashing largely from beliefs that they should have ended up with other people, anger that Janeway and Chakotay didn't end up together, or with no one, that Seven just shouldn't have had a romance with anyone at the end, should have remained more loner and still pretty alien, not that human yet?

For me, in "Endgame" the C/7 relationship seemed to come out of nowhere and it was quite surprising. In "Human Error" it feels (to me) like Seven is interested in Chakotay, Chakotay is just being friendly and Seven decides at the end of the episode that she's not interested in Chakotay any more.

I thought that Janeway and Chakotay would end up together (although at Quark's is right that they had 7 years and didn't get together) just because there had been chemistry between them for most of the show and it was the last episode. I know "Shattered" can be interpreted as closing the door on them having a relationship, but it could also explain why Janeway was so against them getting together up to that point: Janeway didn't want to violate the temporal prime directive when Chakotay told her they didn't get together before then but after "Shattered" there was nothing to stop them.

I didn't like "Human Error" when I first saw it because the Chakotay hologram was quite different to Chakotay and Seven didn't seem to know him that well - eg she got him to eat lamb and carrots. The episode has really grown on me. I think the writers could have written a believeable relationship between Chakotay and Seven but I think we needed to see them interact more. If in "Human Error" Seven hadn't had an issue with her cortical node and it finished with her deciding she wanted to spend more time with Chakotay then that would have been the starting point of their relationship and I would have found it believeable.

Admiral Janeway went back in time to break up Chakotay and Seven.

It's why she chose that moment to arrive in the past.

I don't think that was authorial intent, but it does seem a lot like that's Admiral Janeway's motivation (YMMV). The future we see is quite good for most people.

I never saw a problem with it. Both were good choices for each other. Following the EMH's purely procreational lectures, Seven's efficiency drive made her pick the "masculine bear-like strong warrior", and Chakotay simply thought "I'm not gonna do a Harry and say no and run away"

Btw, can we call it the Kim maneuver?

Totally agree! I got the impression that other than the main characters, a lot of characters paired off in season 3. That's about the point that most people would realise/accept that they really are going to be on Voyager for a long time. B'Elanna seemed to date/get asked out by a lot of guys that season. By the time Seven is ready to date, the dating pool may be quite small. There were probably a few people who found out their spouses had died or found someone else in "Hunters" but they may have found new partners by season 7. Seven is probably picking from about 5 people and Chakotay is the best option. Chakotay is probably picking from a similarly tiny dating pool too. I think their relationship would work on Voyager but once they are back in the Alpha Quadrant and they have other choices they would probably prefer to see different people.

 

[Akiraprise]

C/7 was definitely rushed at the end. Those two characters never really had much of even a "friendly" relationship. They weren't enemies or anything but we never really saw them hang out or even converse much outside of work topics. Basing this entirely upon what we saw on screen. J/C makes sense. 7/Doc makes sense. J/7 would make more sense than C/7, even though I saw J/7 as more of a mother daughter sister type relationship. Pretty much any main character other than Neelix makes more sense than pairing her up with Chakotay.

 

[Oddish]

Admiral Janeway went back in time to break up Chakotay and Seven.

It's why she chose that moment to arrive in the past.

I thought she went back to prevent Harry from becoming captain...

Maybe it was a three-fer. Save Tuvok/Chak/7, prevent the C/7 abomination, and keep Harry at ensign until the heat death of the universe.

don't buy the Janeway/ Chakotay stuff. They had their chance to find a working model for 7 years, had they really wanted to.

When those two were in a room together, things spontaneously combusted. And after reading the Tor review of the episode, I still believe that they did some serious Wild Thang in the 6 weeks between the Vidiian battle and Voyager's return to New Earth.

Regarding C/7, my opinion is:
1. Little chemistry between the actors.
2. No lead-in, it just "happened:.
3. No logical reason for those two.
4. It felt more like a plot device than a romance.
5. Better choices. Either Harry or the EMH would have gone better with Seven.
6. J/C forever!

 

[cosmic mouse]

As has been said , the Doc and 7 had a far more established friendship, but I didn't see any sort of sexual chemistry between them, even before 7 more or less dissed him. There was more actual chemistry between 7 and Janeway, imo.
I didn't really have a problem with C7 actually, although a short scene inserted into Natural Law somewhere (and there was ample opportunity) would have made their interactions in Endgame more believable.

 

[Oddish]

Forgot one...
7. I associate C/7 with Endgame, which I regard as one of VOY's blunders (spend an hour establishing a timeline, erase it, replace it with a whole lotta nothin').

 

[F. King Daniel]

Chakotay was so bad he turned Seven gay.

 

[Dukhat]

Most Star Trek romances are completely contrived. This one is no different. And the reasons everyone has given for it are pretty spot-on.

 

[Oddish]

Third: It actually looked like the whole thing was a slap in the face from those in charge to all thise fans who wanted some sort of "happy ending" between Chakotay and Janeway.

If true, not the only time they pulled something like that.

I'm thinking, does Chakotay not introducing himself as “Captain Hansen” on ST: Prodigy as Seven’s path on PIC rule out that they’re still together/married?

I think it's ruled out, but not for that reason. People don't always change their names when marrying even today, and it's probably even less common in the 24th century.

 

[somebuddyX]

I could be wrong but I think people could have liked Chakotay and Seven if we'd seen it play out like Tom and B'Elanna, as in building it up slowly over the years. I'm not a big fan of Endgame in general and seeing it suddenly pop up there was a bit offputting and then hearing that it was all because of a bet between Brannon and Robert made it moreso. But I've kind of come to think that if we'd seen Chakotay and Seven have a relationship similar to Kira and Odo, first just as friends and then more, then I think I would have really enjoyed seeing them hook up.

 

[Summer Solstice]

I could be wrong but I think people could have liked Chakotay and Seven if we'd seen it play out like Tom and B'Elanna, as in building it up slowly over the years. I'm not a big fan of Endgame in general and seeing it suddenly pop up there was a bit offputting and then hearing that it was all because of a bet between Brannon and Robert made it moreso. But I've kind of come to think that if we'd seen Chakotay and Seven have a relationship similar to Kira and Odo, first just as friends and then more, then I think I would have really enjoyed seeing them hook up.

I agree with you: a lot of the problem was it was a surprise. If they had closed the door on J/C on screen before that point, it would have been less of a surprise for me. Tom and B'Elanna's relationship was done well.

 

[Oddish]

I could be wrong but I think people could have liked Chakotay and Seven if we'd seen it play out like Tom and B'Elanna, as in building it up slowly over the years.

It would have depended on whether...
1. A convincing pretext could be found. What brings them together?
2. The level of chemistry between the actors. We didn't see Chakotay and Seven together much, so who knows what they might have had.
3. How well the actors could sell it in terms of, well, acting.

And there would always have been opposition from people who shipped other couples (7/EMH, J/C, whatever).