Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?
- Thread starter B. L.
- Start date
Vidia is fine.
You would not know that the phage was a thing to superficially look at the place.
(I half remember some dialogue like that, and besides, look out your window, do you see any Covid?)
Any outbreak is quickly suppressed.
So?
Whats with the gangs of organ harvesters then?
The Super rich continue to be the worst.
You would not know that the phage was a thing to superficially look at the place.
(I half remember some dialogue like that, and besides, look out your window, do you see any Covid?)
Any outbreak is quickly suppressed.
So?
Whats with the gangs of organ harvesters then?
The Super rich continue to be the worst.
That seems like the most likely explanation.
That's always possible, considering we don't have the faintest idea how Federation sensors pick up 'lifeforms' (humanoid or other) in the first place.
OK, so here's how it could have happened in "late" Voyager:
UNIMATRIX ZERO - By this point in time, the writers had undoubtedly received an increasing number of letters from upset fans demanding to know why Harry hadn't been promoted. Where the sensible course of action was to accommodate them, and the reasonable alternative was to simply ignore them, the writers of the series clearly decided to rub the viewers' noses in Harry's non-promotion, a sort of "we're going to do this and you can't stop us" sort of gesture. Ergo, Tom gets restored to lieutenant, Harry remarks that he didn't see a box on his chair... and it never gets addressed. It's just like: "Oh, that silly Harry, he's done stellar work for only six years while Tom's been at it for one and a half, and he thinks he deserves a promotion too; what a knucklehead." It would have been a very simple matter for Harry to find a little box on his chair. Or, they could have done something else. Let me be clear, I'm fine with Janeway reinstating Tom to his previous rank; this is solely about the promotion she didn't give.
NIGHTINGALE - This is the second episode where the writers rub our noses in it. Janeway actually acts like Harry was out of line (i.e. "bucking for a promotion") when he merely observes that he's been an ensign for about five years longer than he would have under normal circumstances. Of course, when she confronts him, he has to immediately tell her what she wants to hear, like any good subordinate would. The fact that he must do so does not make his position any less valid, and Janeway should have understood this. There was no ending conversation between them, but there certainly could have been. Harry admits that command is more difficult than he thought, Janeway agrees that it is, and maybe he's not ready for it, yet. But, she adds, there's a reason why there are so many ranks between ensign and captain, and he is ready for the next step on his journey. This would have given added meaning to Harry's final remark to Neelix: "I'm not a captain... not yet."
ENDGAME - They could have just cut in on Janeway promoting Harry upon the shift from the alternate present to the past on Voyager. Let me be clear: I find Berman's line "someone gotta be duh ensign" to be one of his most boneheaded decisions (the man did a lot of good for the franchise, but sometimes you wonder just what he was thinking). Having Harry finally get promoted with half an episode left in the series would be far from ideal: at best, it would be a last-ditch compromise. Some might even consider it a final insult of sorts. However, it would have served one very real purpose: at least it would alter Harry's canonical rank on Memory Alpha, and would have prevented the character from being dubbed "the forever ensign" for the past two decades*.
Ten opportunities, and that's just the ones I can think of.
*The most reliable non-canonical sources (the "Endgame" timeline, "Star Trek Online", and Una McCormick's autobiography of Captain Janeway) agree that Harry went on to a successful career in Starfleet, including his own command. However, because there is no canonical source of information on the character, it's still theoreticaly possible that he never advanced beyond his Voyager rank.
UNIMATRIX ZERO - By this point in time, the writers had undoubtedly received an increasing number of letters from upset fans demanding to know why Harry hadn't been promoted. Where the sensible course of action was to accommodate them, and the reasonable alternative was to simply ignore them, the writers of the series clearly decided to rub the viewers' noses in Harry's non-promotion, a sort of "we're going to do this and you can't stop us" sort of gesture. Ergo, Tom gets restored to lieutenant, Harry remarks that he didn't see a box on his chair... and it never gets addressed. It's just like: "Oh, that silly Harry, he's done stellar work for only six years while Tom's been at it for one and a half, and he thinks he deserves a promotion too; what a knucklehead." It would have been a very simple matter for Harry to find a little box on his chair. Or, they could have done something else. Let me be clear, I'm fine with Janeway reinstating Tom to his previous rank; this is solely about the promotion she didn't give.
NIGHTINGALE - This is the second episode where the writers rub our noses in it. Janeway actually acts like Harry was out of line (i.e. "bucking for a promotion") when he merely observes that he's been an ensign for about five years longer than he would have under normal circumstances. Of course, when she confronts him, he has to immediately tell her what she wants to hear, like any good subordinate would. The fact that he must do so does not make his position any less valid, and Janeway should have understood this. There was no ending conversation between them, but there certainly could have been. Harry admits that command is more difficult than he thought, Janeway agrees that it is, and maybe he's not ready for it, yet. But, she adds, there's a reason why there are so many ranks between ensign and captain, and he is ready for the next step on his journey. This would have given added meaning to Harry's final remark to Neelix: "I'm not a captain... not yet."
ENDGAME - They could have just cut in on Janeway promoting Harry upon the shift from the alternate present to the past on Voyager. Let me be clear: I find Berman's line "someone gotta be duh ensign" to be one of his most boneheaded decisions (the man did a lot of good for the franchise, but sometimes you wonder just what he was thinking). Having Harry finally get promoted with half an episode left in the series would be far from ideal: at best, it would be a last-ditch compromise. Some might even consider it a final insult of sorts. However, it would have served one very real purpose: at least it would alter Harry's canonical rank on Memory Alpha, and would have prevented the character from being dubbed "the forever ensign" for the past two decades*.
Ten opportunities, and that's just the ones I can think of.
*The most reliable non-canonical sources (the "Endgame" timeline, "Star Trek Online", and Una McCormick's autobiography of Captain Janeway) agree that Harry went on to a successful career in Starfleet, including his own command. However, because there is no canonical source of information on the character, it's still theoreticaly possible that he never advanced beyond his Voyager rank.
Because he was of Korean decent? It was never stated if his heritage was from the North or South of the Korean border so maybe the crew were nervous around him because of 24th century politics? As nice and polite as he was, and as willing as he was to please, the senior leadership on Voyager might have just been a bit paranoid of his true intentions and representations? Surely by the 24th century all of those 20th and 21st Century issues on the Korean Peninsula had been resolved but it is never mentioned on screen or canonised like the reunification of Ireland was? Maybe 24th century Earth still had a few small social and geographical isolationist ‘bubbles’ trapped in the past which hadn’t quite been ‘fixed’? If Harry Kim was from an ‘Earth district’ which still had social and political problems from centuries gone by which hadn’t quite been resolved, kind of ‘behind the times’ so to speak (they still might not even believe in aliens and spaceships!), then it is quite possible that Janeway just didn’t know what to do with him? If she raised his rank too high he would have had access to sensitive information and Starfleet records? 
I would have judged him from his onscreen character traits considering that they were lost in the Delta Quadrant and out of touch with Earth. When Tom Paris was reduced in rank to Ensign, I would have increased Harry Kim’s rank to Lieutenant to compensate, keeping Paris at the reduced rank. It only takes an Ensign or Cadet to pilot a starship, as shown by Wesley Crusher - piloting a starship could even be a non commissioned role, but Ops can be slightly more demanding of a role from a technical perspective and deserving of a higher rank due to the extra workload?
Perhaps Ensign Kim will show up with a higher rank, especially if Seven of Nine needs to get in touch with old friends in a spin off series as part of one of her missions?
I imagine that Harry Kim would be still out there exploring, if he made Captain or not though I do not know… but I am sure that he is still part of a crew somewhere.
I would have judged him from his onscreen character traits considering that they were lost in the Delta Quadrant and out of touch with Earth. When Tom Paris was reduced in rank to Ensign, I would have increased Harry Kim’s rank to Lieutenant to compensate, keeping Paris at the reduced rank. It only takes an Ensign or Cadet to pilot a starship, as shown by Wesley Crusher - piloting a starship could even be a non commissioned role, but Ops can be slightly more demanding of a role from a technical perspective and deserving of a higher rank due to the extra workload?
Perhaps Ensign Kim will show up with a higher rank, especially if Seven of Nine needs to get in touch with old friends in a spin off series as part of one of her missions?
I imagine that Harry Kim would be still out there exploring, if he made Captain or not though I do not know… but I am sure that he is still part of a crew somewhere.
He was from South Carolina, regardless of his descent. And remember that Pavel Chekhov was from Russia, the Big Bad of the 60's, but he still made Commander.
Or reinstating Tom a year or so later like they did. Harry never mentions not finding a box on his chair because he wasn't expecting one.
He could turn up in Prodigy or Picard, and will probably have an appropriate rank if he does. But they might have him turn up on Lower Decks as the hapless "forever ensign" so many people seem to think he is/should be.
imagine that Harry Kim would be still out there exploring, if he made Captain or not though I do not know… but I am sure that he is still part of a crew somewhere.
Whether he is a captain depends on the time. Non-canonically, he's at that rank in Endgame (2404 AD), Online (2401?), and Autobiography (2395). So if he shows up in Picard (also 2401), it's reasonable that he'd be captain or higher. LD or PRO (both early 2380's), he might not be there yet.
And again, that assumes that his career survived his promotion drought. Many CO's might see seven years as an ensign as a sign of incompetence, and not want him on their ship.
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I never would believe it would have to do anything with his descent, or with political tensions. 24th century earth has supposedly left issues such as racism (and even specieism) far behind it; there has been a world government for more than 200 years so that even if there were any political tensions they probably would be seen as localized minor issues at best, not 'international tensions' or any such thing. And to top it off, he's from what the 20th/early 21st century would call 'USA', the same as Janeway.
Harry was the editor of the academy newspaper.
His reporting on the divisive Maquis issue was seminal.
He interviewed everyone taking every point of view into care.
Harry Kim was an expert on the Maquis, the largest political shitstorm of the last ten years.
And maybe that's why she signed up Harry?
To use his expertise on the Maquis, as she hunted and killed them all?
So, what is the career path of those crew members that are less than stellar likely to be? Say, Tal Celes? (She's a crewman which might mean she's in a different career track altogether, but still).
Not sure for enlisted crew.
In the wet navy, which Starfleet is based on, making senior grade lieutenant is pretty much certain for anyone who gets commissioned as an ensign, unless you're incredibly incompetent, or get discharged because you did something bad.
80% of lieutenants will make LCDR.
70% of LCDR's will make commander.
50% of commanders will make captain.
8% of captains will make admiral.
A very mediocre officer would finish their career as a lieutenant.
In the wet navy, which Starfleet is based on, making senior grade lieutenant is pretty much certain for anyone who gets commissioned as an ensign, unless you're incredibly incompetent, or get discharged because you did something bad.
80% of lieutenants will make LCDR.
70% of LCDR's will make commander.
50% of commanders will make captain.
8% of captains will make admiral.
A very mediocre officer would finish their career as a lieutenant.
Definitely better.
The way carey was treated is almost as disgusting as how Kes was treated. Carey was a good character who should have been a recurring character like Garak, Rom and Nog was in DS9.
In the Voyager books from "the Kes era", Carey is a most prominent member of the crew who does a lot of godd job for the ship and the crew.
Assuming a steady equilibrium that would give the following approximate distribution of the total 'officer population' at a random point in time.
21,45% ENS
21,45% Lt. Jr. Gr
21,45% Lt. Sr. Gr
17,16% LCDR
12,01% CDR
6,00% CPT
0,48% ADM
Now all we have to do is go through all episodes of all series, tally everyone we see and determine their ranks to see if the percentages come close to that
I think Starfleet might have slightly different criteria, given that Picard was a LTJG at 50 in "Tapestry". But I question the idea that an officer that lousy would be posted on the Enterprise. A lieutenant that age is more Cerritos fodder.
However, Harry Kim was competent enough to be up for lieutenant at 8 months in the "Non Sequitur" timeline. So regardless of the differences, he certainly should have been a lieutenant by the fourth season, and preferably by the third.
However, Harry Kim was competent enough to be up for lieutenant at 8 months in the "Non Sequitur" timeline. So regardless of the differences, he certainly should have been a lieutenant by the fourth season, and preferably by the third.
Well, because Voyager's producers needed to have an Enseign on duty! I'd add that Janeway was stranded in another quadrant to try to keep her crew safe and sound. Even if she didn't promote Harry, that didn't prevent her to welcome him in briefings among superior officier, to trust and listen his advice,.
I bet that once back on Earth, she had to do her best to give to her officers, especially the most deserving, a commision for wherever they wanted to be.
And then, better being an Enseign alive than a Lieutenant dead! Never forget that showrunners wanted to kill Harry Kim in s2 or 3. They finally had to keep the actor and his character alive but that didn't mean they had to give him everything on a platter!
I bet that once back on Earth, she had to do her best to give to her officers, especially the most deserving, a commision for wherever they wanted to be.
And then, better being an Enseign alive than a Lieutenant dead! Never forget that showrunners wanted to kill Harry Kim in s2 or 3. They finally had to keep the actor and his character alive but that didn't mean they had to give him everything on a platter!
The impression I got from Lt. Picard was not necessarily that he was bad or incompetent in what he did, but simply that he never put in the additional effort 'that was required' for his career to go ahead. Since we actually don't know what gets people promoted or not in Starfleet, he may have been perfectly adequate in the function he was serving in - just showing no signs that would put him on the shortlist for promotion. Perhaps such people simply don't get promoted beyond LTJG - at least according to the standards on the ENT-D.
At least on the Enterprise D being liked by Riker and Troi helps, being the son of a woman the captain has a crush on is also a career booster.
And... why, exactly? The senior staff of the Enterprise D (S7) ended up with a captain, three commanders, two LCDR's, and a lieutenant. No ensign in sight. Even recurring characters Ogawa and Ro got lieutenant pips.
So she gave him the privileges and responsibilities of a lieutenant. Why not give him the grade to go with it?
I think she probably did so as well. But again, why was it necessary? Why promote Tuvok and Tom but not Harry. Why the hell DIDN'T Harry find a little box on his chair?
That sounds fine for an ordinary Starfleet ship... but wouldn't the Enterprise get the best and the brightest?
The Enterprise got Barclay, who certainly didn't present as the best and the brightest... Even in the episodes that showcased him, I don't recall him doing anything that necessarily stood out relative to what other characters might have done.
It's possible Picard was another (less neurotic?) Barclay in this universe, getting glowing recommendations from people who mostly wanted to get him off their ships.
Or maybe he was aimless (not that that's something someone should necessarily be penalized for) but good at his job, and since he never made a fuss about it the senior officers figured they'd leave him to do what he was good at and seemingly enjoyed. If Picard had stayed in this timeline there would doubtless have been a bit of Back to the Future syndrome as the rest of the crew discovered the Picard they knew had been replaced by doppleganger.
If Kim had been doing Ensign-level work and had never made any noises about getting promotions, he might have been a younger BlueShirt Picard. But he wasn't doing Ensign-level work and he did make noises.
Didn't "Good Shepherd" show us someone who wasn't interested in doing anything other than what he was doing? I feel Voyager in particular sometimes portrayed it as being incomprehensible that someone would like the work they do and not desire more.
Of course The Office made an entire business (ha) out of showing what happens when someone's promoted to a position above their capabilities (and arguably desires).
It's possible Picard was another (less neurotic?) Barclay in this universe, getting glowing recommendations from people who mostly wanted to get him off their ships.
Or maybe he was aimless (not that that's something someone should necessarily be penalized for) but good at his job, and since he never made a fuss about it the senior officers figured they'd leave him to do what he was good at and seemingly enjoyed. If Picard had stayed in this timeline there would doubtless have been a bit of Back to the Future syndrome as the rest of the crew discovered the Picard they knew had been replaced by doppleganger.
If Kim had been doing Ensign-level work and had never made any noises about getting promotions, he might have been a younger BlueShirt Picard. But he wasn't doing Ensign-level work and he did make noises.
Didn't "Good Shepherd" show us someone who wasn't interested in doing anything other than what he was doing? I feel Voyager in particular sometimes portrayed it as being incomprehensible that someone would like the work they do and not desire more.
Of course The Office made an entire business (ha) out of showing what happens when someone's promoted to a position above their capabilities (and arguably desires).
Maybe Janeway knew how eager Ensign Kim's parents were to see Harold succeed, so she decided she'd make a big spectacle out of promoting him when Voyager got back to the Alpha Quadrant so they wouldn't miss out on it 
