Spoilers Is Picard season 2 a failure?

[F. King Daniel]

People change in 20 years.

And then you get the Trekkies who scream "canon violation!" and call it out of character

 

[Charles Phipps]

Cool post but did you see the scene were raffi and seven stab 50 borg hybrids in a hail of gun fire.

Like what are we talking about

Yeah, that was awesome.

(PicardHitByTesla gives up in despair)

 

[fireproof78]

No one get it:

Why did seven and raffi stab that guy and say it's ok to kill borg they aren't human.

Because they are dealing with past trauma.


When Picard gets hit by a tesla Why do they refuse to send him to a med bed?

But chose a community clinic?

Because he has to be on a coma so he can show us his past trauma

And then Rios girlfriend is shocking him with the paddles and its shorting out her electronics.


But no we need a coma to explore past trauma

Yes.

No issues for me here.

 

[Charles Phipps]

You mean, why would the people who have a malfunctioning ship with a transporter that almost killed them, not take him to see a medical professional who can be trusted for their discretion until they can get him medicine from the future? Which they give him and heals him?

That's not even a real complaint!

 

[PicardHitbyTesla]

Yes.

No issues for me here.

Exactly

 

[PicardHitbyTesla]

You mean, why would the people who have a malfunctioning ship with a transporter that almost killed them, not take him to see a medical professional who can be trusted for their discretion until they can get him medicine from the future? Which they give him and heals him?

That's not even a real complaint!

Cuz he is a robot that makes her equipment explode and they don't tell her that he is a robot?

Jesus christ

 

[PicardHitbyTesla]

Can anyone help me here with these two?

Every insane plot development is just exploring past trauma


Is anyone here

Please help me

 

[Charles Phipps]

Cuz he is a robot that makes her equipment explode and they don't tell her that he is a robot?

Jesus christ

Then why would the med bay made for humans help?

Also, his golem body is supposed to be 99% human.

 

[PicardHitbyTesla]

Then why would the med bay made for humans help?

Also, his golem body is supposed to be 99% human.

Actually you are right go with the 2024 clinic instead of the stat ship.


They just didn't do that to force a coma to explore past family trauma

 

[Rahul]

Is Picard Season 2 a failure? Or: How I am disappointed by Picard Season 2

So, first off, pardon the longish rant, but I wanted to discuss the season overall and see if other people feel the same way I do about Season 2. I read a couple of reviews recently that crystalized some of my opinions about the show that I was really trying to hide from acknowledging.

· Some good points about Picard being more like some subpar “edgy” sci-fi drama than anything Star Trek: https://www.thegamer.com/star-trek-picard-is-garbage/

· Picard’s pacing, among other things, are major issues: https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-trek-picard-season-2-episode-8-review-mercy/

I thought episode 1 was great and what Picard should have been all along. Episode 2 was pretty great, with great performances and a less silly “mirror universe”. So I was really digging this season at the start. Since then, for me, it has devolved into barely watchable, boring, and meandering Discovery-level Trek.

Positive points:

· Jeri Ryan acting more like Seven, and less like the too-human version of her in season 1

· John De Lancie playing up a great, darker version of Q, even though the actual part is small/less than impactful

· Ito Aghayere’s portrayal of young Guinan

· Stewart getting a couple of Picard speeches (even if the justification for them was very slight)

Negative points (just about everything else, where to start?):

· Pointless fetch quests for our crew in the 21st century (Rios, Seven, and Raffi) where they achieve nothing but wasting time (why was the music so dramatic when Seven was driving, when absolutely no one was chasing them?)

· Waffling back and forth about whether Renee is ok or not; once Picard gives her his little speech she is fine, but only really noted in offhand dialog an episode or two later, but then suddenly they worry about it again and desperately need Picard back up and functioning again to address absolutely no problem with Renee

· Meandering storylines in every episode that just go on and on: Jurati/Borg Queen, Rios and the doctor, Soong and his daughter

· Our heroic crew seems very uncaring regarding security of the Borg Queen, the likely greatest threat to the survival of the entire planet:

o just hook her immediately in to the ship; don’t worry about a security field; don’t worry about implementing any security on the computer systems; leave her alone in the ship while you traipse off to the Chateau (for no reason); leave her Borg tentacles and nanoprobes intact and functional; leave her in the care of the not-at-all-unreliable and already compromised Jurati; once she and Jurati combine, don’t pull out all the stops to find her, just send 2 of your crew to kind of look for her 8 hours later and hope they don’t get their butts kicked

· Non-stop plot holes/lack of justification in practically every episode

o Q’s plan for Adam at the party was to alert security, then Adam walks off assuming everything was fine; security does zip; and then Adam repeats his failure with the out-of-the-blue attempted car homicide thing; and why were all 5 of the crew there again? Only Jurati and Picard did anything at all.

o Everything with Picard’s injury; he’s fine until he is not, then the doc just walks out, then non-Laris has magic mind-meld tech, then it’s crucial that the doctor holds the stabilizer instrument over Picard’s head when neither of them knows what they are doing and it requires no medical skill at all; and apparently all along non-Laris is an ancestor of Laris’s (at least there is some explanation)?

o Q, Adam, the Borg Queen; they all seem to go about their plots (whatever they actually turn out to be) in needlessly circuitous ways (almost like they are trying to pad out the running time of a 10-episode serialized show). Why does Q become a fake psychiatrist? Why does he try to get her to quit? Why doesn’t he just report that she is psychologically unfit for service? Why doesn’t he just kill her? Why does he recruit Adam to do nothing at all (other than to get Spiner and Stewart in a scene together)? If he can impersonate a doctor as part of the Europa mission or a FBI agent, why does he need Adam for anything? If Adam has access to advanced cloning technology, and money, and mercenaries, what does he need permission from some stupid medical board for? If he’s willing to do illegal genetics experiments and clone people, run down heroic astronauts or random nonagenarians with his car, and hire mercs to do whatever, what does he care if some board gives the stamp of approval for his work?

World building issues

· No references to the apparently very impactful (given Soong’s storyline) eugenics war storyline (other than a reference, maybe, to some treaty or agreement). I get that the writers seem to not want to touch that rail, but then why have a genetics/eugenics storyline if you are afraid to address it?

· They seem to be going out of their way to make the 2024 setting to be exactly like current reality, so it feels weird that the only differences are elements specifically needed for the plot lines, with no outside impacts or changes.

o ICE is just like in our reality, re: immigration and poor treatment of prisoners/suspects; but no sci-fi trappings like different uniforms, technology, or organizational title

o There are background references to sanctuary districts and 1 reference to homelessness among wealth, but no other impacts

o There are advanced space missions (Europa) and advanced genetics (cloning?) but no impacts on any day-to-day life: no clothing differences, dialog differences, nothing

· It just all feels very small; maybe this is all impacts from covid restrictions, but every scene (minus the party scene which had more people) feels like the scenes were all designed to take place in closets where we don’t have to see any historical, social, or technological differences; where our characters have stilted dialog talking all around the actual topic at hand until they have ultra-direct pointed discussions resulting in insightful and life-changing revelations over the course of 10 minutes. Rios on a whim shows the doc and her kid all the future tech; Picard reveals the entire plot re: being from the future, to some random FBI guy.

o [Noted that Voyager’s visit to the “present” in “Future’s End” was similarly underwhelming with some of the same issues re: eugenics, and sci-fi differences, but it felt like it was trying harder. DS9’s visit to the 21st century in “Past Tense” actually felt like science fiction.]

[And yes, I realize that we can all bend over backward to come up with some tortured justifications to paper over the holes in logic and motivation, but that doesn’t mean the show isn’t bad.]

I guess I have to face it: Picard season 2 is no real improvement over season 1 in any of the ways that really matter. It still has bad pacing. The mystery box approach to the individual plotlines is still boring/unengaging. And in some ways it is worse: the plotting (logic, character intentions and decisions) is even less justified than in season 1, with episodes lurching from point to point with little support other than that is what the episodes call for at any given minute. Raffi is seriously underserved both in storyline and in giving the actress not much real to contribute. And none of our crew members feel like the heroic best-of-the-best Starfleet types that we were led to believe they were back in season 2 episode 1 (after they had supposedly gotten their mojo back as a result of their work/success in season 1).

So, I will still be looking forward to the reunion of the TNG cast in season 3, but I don’t have any real hope for this season to be good and will likely just complete it to see how the plot ends (like I did season 4 of Discovery). Such a let down from the promise the start of this season.


So rant over. Anyone else feeling similar?

To give a short answer to a long rant:

Yes.

Long answer:
No idea if it is objectively a failure. But for me personally it is. It's the only Star Trek show I ever intentionally stopped watching. I had my problems with DIS seasons 1 & 2. But I soldiered through them. And I just kind of forgot to pick it up afterwards again (though I still intend to watch seasons 3 & 4 some day... probably... maybe).
On PIC I decided after ep 4 or 5 this is just not worth my time. It's the only time I ever stopped watching a sci-fi show in the middle of a season, while new episodes being aired. I just don't care.
Maybe their trick for season 3 will bring me back. But I'm jaded. Best case is "giving it a chance". I'm not looking forward to it in any way or form.

 

[Char Kais]

In what way did Pulitzer Prize-winning writer Michael Chabon "gaslight" anybody? What the heck is it with this weird desire to paint creators whose decisions you don't enjoy as bad people?

https://boundingintocomics.com/2020...mits-he-wanted-to-piss-off-or-provoke-people/

Star Trek: Picard Showrunner Michael Chabon Admits He Wanted To “Piss Off Or Provoke People”

Variety’s Adam Vary went right for the one million dollar question and asked Chabon, “So were there things about “Picard” that you knew you wanted to do that you could sense would test some boundaries for fans?”

Chabon answered, “Sure. To the extent that I was aware of the kind of toxic fandom, the anti-SJW, you know, sad little corner of fandom — you just disregard that.”

He then added, “Sometimes you’re motivated to have things simply because it’s possibly going to piss off or provoke people who seem to have missed the memo about just what exactly “Star Trek” is and always has been all about.”

 

[fireproof78]

"Piss off" is not "manipulating people to question their own sanity." Art is meant to provoke emotions.

 

[Precious Tritium]

Based Chabon.

 

[gweeps]

"Piss off" is not "manipulating people to question their own sanity." Art is meant to provoke emotions.

Both the creator and the audience bring their emotions. To quote Oscar Wilde, all art is quite useless.

 

[gweeps]

Or, as Stephen King once wrote, it is the tale not he who tells it. Art, a nebulous term, conveys emotion. Whether the end result of the effort provokes any in someone else is besides the point. And it's a fine balance that must be sought when the desire for profit beyond kind words enters the picture.

 

[fireproof78]

Both the creator and the audience bring their emotions. To quote Oscar Wilde, all art is quite useless.

It is extremely useless.

And useful all at the same time. Art can connect us when nothing else could.

 

[Jack Wolfe]

It is extremely useless.

And useful all at the same time. Art can connect us when nothing else could.

“Fiction is the lie that tells the truth, after all.” ― Neil Gaiman

 

[gweeps]

“Fiction is the lie that tells the truth, after all.” ― Neil Gaiman

While accurate, I prefer Stephen King's "Fiction is the truth inside the lie."

 

[James Cole]

Having tried to watch their nonsense that they take clips out of their context for, I came to the conclusion they just aren't willing to understand the show and it's tragic. Mind you, I think Lower Decks may be my all time favorite Star Trek series and when the hatedom went for it, I had the moment of schadenfreude when they bashed it with all the expected hate and their own fandom clapped back by saying for them to get a sense of humor.

The Lower Decks board suggested three episodes to try and now I'm open to starting the whole series from the beginning. RLM didn't cover STLD(?) but other YouTubers did, then most coverage tapered off in the middle of the first season. Picard wise, I have the first season safely filed away on Blu-ray. One day I might take a look at it, but again with such specific negative coverage I'm not keen on tackling that one anytime soon.

I recently shelled out about $200 to buy up all the outstanding Star Trek relaunch books. Maybe after I read all of those I'll try those Picard novels. Gotta bookmark the thread to check out your reviews whenever that happens.

I spent 45 minutes writing a post about Michael Chabon, Variety, and alienating 1/3 to 1/2 of the audience to appeal to 8% of the population that are progressive activists, then the board ate my post. Well anyone interested, check out the Hidden Tribes report on political polarization.

Yes, the destruction of the Federation occurred due to the actions of an all-powerful psychic alien but if the Red Lettter Media guys can't remember goddamn WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE and CHARLIE X then they have no business reviewing Star Trek. Discovery didn't want the Burn to be a terrorist plot or an EVIL alien race. It was instead just a misunderstood all powerful child.

FWIW, RLM didn't cover STD season 3. But other YouTubers just savaged that season. If I ever make it through rewatching season 2 I'll try and press on to season 3 and see if/when I get snagged on any of the points mentioned earlier.

Seriously, with some of these complaints, you don't just sound like you have specific creative objections -- you sound like you just don't think basic conventions of storytelling should happen. You don't sound like you dislike nuTrek; you sound like you just don't enjoy watching television.

FWIW, some of my favorite prestige dramas include The Shield, The Americans, Breaking Bad / Better Call Saul, Mad Men, Succession, and I finally got to both The Sopranos and The Wire during the pandemic. If you want to try something in Portuguese on HBO Max, Magnifica 70 is amazing. Dexter: New Blood was the best Dexter since season 4 but not exactly top shelf. By far my most favorite genre series of the last decade is 12 Monkeys (which features the work of not just Terry Matalas, but other Picard season 2 and 3 writers Christopher Monfette and Travis Fickett), followed by Counterpart, The Expanse, and of course The Orville (lol). Looking further back, I'm really into Stargate and the BSG reboot. Comedy wise I've really liked Community, Arrested Development, Party Down, The Office, Parks and Recreation, The Good Place, the first three seasons of Arrested Development... and on the animated side Rick & Morty and Archer. Other shot outs to Halt and Catch Fire, Mr Robot, Lucifer...

Hell, even season 2 and 3 of Fringe are great, and that had Abrams, Kurtzman, and Akiva Goldsman on the payroll.

 

[JamesRye]

Is Picard season 2 a failure?

Well, I gave up Discovery a few episodes into Season 4 - because it was terrible and I just couldn't watch it any more.

Picard, at least is watchable for me - and I will likely watch Season 3. But I don't really view it as Star Trek anymore. I mean, it's written in the title, but I just don't feel it. It's depressing to watch and makes little logical sense. The acting is pretty good though and I think the actors really carry the show, but man, the story and dialog is awful. I gotta say that John De Lancie is incredible in the show, even with the direlog (see what I did there) that he's given.

I hope your mileage will vary, but in my mind, I kind of wall this series off from the TNG TV show and even the movies.

I guess it's only really a faliure if the ratings (or whatever metric they use to measure audience participation these days) say so. The trailer for season 3, coming near the opening of season 2 was weird though, and I viewed it as a desperate bid to maintain audience interest - but then I'm biased - because I dont think the show is very good.

Why keep watching if you don't like it? C'mon, I love TNG and I just have to know where they're going with Picard. And like I say, its watchable, even if it makes as much sense as a chocolate teapot. I wish though, that the writing could be as good and the characters as consistent as in a show like, say, Better Call Saul. Modern Trek though, with the writers they have - it's like comparing the Mr Men books with Shakespeare.