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Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

Given that Kes has long been one of the Doctor's staunchest advocates, does it seem likely that they would come into conflict in this way? Since she didn't wear a uniform in the B&A timeline (Neelix, by comparison, did), she may have practiced medicine as a civilian, making chain of command less relevant.

Phlox didn't wear a uniform.

Kes was dying and on the brink of death after her 9th birthday, I just assumed she was retired, even though Chakotay said "it's hard to believe that she did micro surgery on my elbow 3 weeks ago."

Linnis wore a uniform, but she didn't have pips or a provisional rank badge.

Linnis also said that it was Kes who trained her to be a Doctor, not the Doctor.
 
Regardless, it seems obvious that Dr. Van Gogh played an important part in Voyager's daily life, even if he had flesh and blood physicians available.

And, in the Before and After timeline, I reiterate, issues of rank were presumably not left to any of the Sickbay staff. Chakotay had assumed the post of captain (complete with ditching the provisional rank insignia), and he had given promotions to Tuvok, Tom, and Harry, and a field commission to Neelix. So clearly, while Janeway was a very capable captain in most ways, this is one thing Chakotay handled better than her.
 
There was no dialogue that said Kes was CMO.

All that was said was she and Linnis were one of the doctors on the ship... which frankly should have been the case for years on Voyager.

Interesting how when Chakotay was captain in that timeline, multiple people were promoted and there were at least 3 doctors aboard. (Doctor, Kes, Linnis)
 
Interesting how when Chakotay was captain in that timeline, multiple people were promoted and there were at least 3 doctors aboard. (Doctor, Kes, Linnis)

aaaaand the EMH dared to grow some hair! He probably felt too intimidated by Janeway's Power Bun to ever try so.
 
Indeed.

While Janeway was a good in multiple aspects, she was shortsighted on having more medical personnel. During the entire run, it was just The Doctor and 1 person, which was either Kes or Tom, depending on the season. More people should have been trained in case The Doctor is damaged, off the ship, or any other reason. One doctor for 150 people is unrealistic, I don't care how advanced Federation medicine is.
 
Indeed.

While Janeway was a good in multiple aspects, she was shortsighted on having more medical personnel. During the entire run, it was just The Doctor and 1 person, which was either Kes or Tom, depending on the season. More people should have been trained in case The Doctor is damaged, off the ship, or any other reason. One doctor for 150 people is unrealistic, I don't care how advanced Federation medicine is.

While the EMH is perhaps a particularly egregious example, I wonder about more functions. How many people could really take over from B'Elanna as a super engineer? Her main competitor got lost from Engineering for 5+ years somewhere on the ship -probably been wandering the corridors aimlessly for all that time, never to be noticed by anybody, or some such thing-, and was rediscovered only to be quickly killed off. Well, 7 of 9 perhaps. That is, she certainly has the knowledge but I doubt she would be creative enough in an emergency situation when she doesn't have a Borg solution ready. Or how many people could really take over for Tuvok as Head of Security? We never hear about that, or people in training as a fallback option, etc.
 
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The people who are part of the quarterly crew evaluation process recommend promotions,
Yes.
demotions and transfers.
Maybe. We don’t really know that. Seems likely though.
I suggested that Kes might be part of that process if Voyager did not have a counselor since she was the CMO, in the Before and After timeline.
she wasn’t.

I assumed the Doctor would stand down as soon as a person could do the job, since he's only there for emergencies.
early in season 1? Sure. Afterwards? Not really.

And you're saying that the Doctor is a vain asshole who will never relinquish power.
I’m saying that by then he was a person, with all the needs and quirks of personhood. This was one of the main points of his characters.

If Crusher was incapacitated for a few months another doctor would fill in, but her job would still be waiting for her once she had recovered. It might be different if she was declared dead, but even in Before and After they said they were not sure they could recover the doctor, not that he was not recoverable.
 
Indeed.

While Janeway was a good in multiple aspects, she was shortsighted on having more medical personnel. During the entire run, it was just The Doctor and 1 person, which was either Kes or Tom, depending on the season. More people should have been trained in case The Doctor is damaged, off the ship, or any other reason. One doctor for 150 people is unrealistic, I don't care how advanced Federation medicine is.
very true. As I said in the past many times, one of the priorities would have been to immediately start training a couple of people to make doctors out of them, especially in the beginning, when they didn’t know if the EMH was going to be enough. For other posts (security, conn, tactical, engineering…) there were certainly potential replacements, even if maybe “inferior” ones, but not for sickbay.
 
While Janeway was a good in multiple aspects, she was shortsighted on having more medical personnel. During the entire run, it was just The Doctor and 1 person, which was either Kes or Tom, depending on the season. More people should have been trained in case The Doctor is damaged, off the ship, or any other reason. One doctor for 150 people is unrealistic, I don't care how advanced Federation medicine is.

While the EMH is perhaps a particularly egregious example, I wonder about more functions. How many people could really take over from B'Elanna as a super engineer? Her main competitor got lost from Engineering for 5+ years somewhere on the ship -probably been wandering the corridors aimlessly for all that time, never to be noticed by anybody, or some such thing-, and was rediscovered only to be quickly killed off. Well, 7 of 9 perhaps. Or how many people could really take over for Tuvok as Head of Security? We never hear about that, or people in training as a fallback option, etc.

Both these issues stem from an overall problem with Voyager, regarding its rejection of its basic premise. This in addition to negligible Federation-Maquis conflict, and no longer having to ration shuttles, torpedoes, and supplies.

Given that Voyager was by itself with no hope for crew rotation, they were going to have the same people year in and year out... it was the perfect show for a true ensemble cast. Like DS9, which had more than two dozen main and recurring characters.
 
^ If only poor Harry had been smart enough to train his own successor, a crewman-such-and-so, Janeway could have promoted him, and sent him on to bigger & better positions ...
 
Honestly, Harry should have been the successor. It made no sense for a department head on a ship, even a relatively small one like Voyager, to be an ensign fresh out of academy. They should have had the main ops officer be Durst, given that he both outranked and out-experienced Harry. Then, they lose him and Harry has to step up in a big way.
 
^ If only poor Harry had been smart enough to train his own successor, a crewman-such-and-so, Janeway could have promoted him, and sent him on to bigger & better positions ...
better positions such as…?

Honestly, Harry should have been the successor. It made no sense for a department head on a ship, even a relatively small one like Voyager, to be an ensign fresh out of academy. They should have had the main ops officer be Durst, given that he both outranked and out-experienced Harry. Then, they lose him and Harry has to step up in a big way.
agreed. It’s data’s job on the enterprise!
 
Regardless, it seems obvious that Dr. Van Gogh played an important part in Voyager's daily life, even if he had flesh and blood physicians available.

And, in the Before and After timeline, I reiterate, issues of rank were presumably not left to any of the Sickbay staff. Chakotay had assumed the post of captain (complete with ditching the provisional rank insignia), and he had given promotions to Tuvok, Tom, and Harry, and a field commission to Neelix. So clearly, while Janeway was a very capable captain in most ways, this is one thing Chakotay handled better than her.

I think Neelix gets a field commission and works in Security only in timelines where Tuvok becomes first officer and no longer works in Security. He must really not want to work with Neelix.

Indeed.

While Janeway was a good in multiple aspects, she was shortsighted on having more medical personnel. During the entire run, it was just The Doctor and 1 person, which was either Kes or Tom, depending on the season. More people should have been trained in case The Doctor is damaged, off the ship, or any other reason. One doctor for 150 people is unrealistic, I don't care how advanced Federation medicine is.

One doctor for 150 people seems fine in the Alpha Quadrant and I wonder if the Equinox didn't have a flesh and blood doctor at all. But I agree in the Delta Quadrant they need to have multiple people who can help out every time there is an emergency.
 
better positions such as…?

Well, to Head of Security for example. Tuvok then gets promoted to XO, Chakotay gets promoted to Captain, Captain Janeway promotes herself to Vice Admiral Liased to Starfleet Delta Quadrant Operations. And there's still a string of ever fancier functions. Dare to dream big!

Or, in other words, I was just making a joke, tying in the original subject of this thread again. Of course there would be no room to really move up (in function), short of higher ups actually becoming unavailable for the job for whatever reason.

Honestly, Harry should have been the successor. It made no sense for a department head on a ship, even a relatively small one like Voyager, to be an ensign fresh out of academy. They should have had the main ops officer be Durst, given that he both outranked and out-experienced Harry. Then, they lose him and Harry has to step up in a big way.

That sounds entirely reasonable. It would have presented a few problems though (presuming harry is still part of the main cast) so he still would have needed a job interesting enough to dedicate screentime to before he makes his big leap. And that would have required some creative thought in the writer's room.
 
That sounds entirely reasonable. It would have presented a few problems though (presuming harry is still part of the main cast) so he still would have needed a job interesting enough to dedicate screentime to before he makes his big leap. And that would have required some creative thought in the writer's room
not that much: Harry has only a couple of scenes on the bridge before the ship ends up in the delta quadrant, they could have introduced him as a lower decker, keeping the scenes with Tom Paris pretty much the same, and then called him on the bridge to replace the dead OPS officer afterwards.
 
Exactly. During senior officer meetings before they get around to killing Durst (or whoever) off, Harry can just fill in for him because he happens to have relevant information or skills.
 
This brings up something I always wondered.

What happened to Lt. Rollins? Or Lt. Walter Baxter? Or any other Lt. or j.g. aboard?
 
They are all transferred to the shuttle construction department, headed by Carey. Probably half the ship works there.

They spend their free time playing darts using a poster of Chakotay as the target.
 
What happened to Lt. Rollins? Or Lt. Walter Baxter? Or any other Lt. or j.g. aboard?

If only they'd used Harry like the Lower Decks special he was, it wouldn't have mattered.

Think about it. Fresh-faced eager academy grad signs onto Voyager as assistant operations officer. Spends much of his time on lower decks, but is seen on the show because he's pals with hotshot pilot and pariah Tom Paris. And he's good enough at his job, but he's under the wing of a much more seasoned superior (Durst or someone like him). But then, late in Season 1, that superior gets chopped up by the Vidiians. Suddenly, this kid is what Voyager's got for managing the operations department. And sometimes, he's out of his element. But with some hard work, coaching, and patience, he grows into the role. In S2, he's at the staff meetings but uncertain, struggling. But by S3, he's been through the crucible, and come out a competent officer, and when Janeway slaps that hollow pip on his collar, it's like Wes stepping out on the Enterprise bridge in that snazzy red uniform all over again.
 
Yes.

Maybe. We don’t really know that. Seems likely though.
she wasn’t.

early in season 1? Sure. Afterwards? Not really.

I’m saying that by then he was a person, with all the needs and quirks of personhood. This was one of the main points of his characters.

If Crusher was incapacitated for a few months another doctor would fill in, but her job would still be waiting for her once she had recovered. It might be different if she was declared dead, but even in Before and After they said they were not sure they could recover the doctor, not that he was not recoverable.

Riker and Dee were talking about intership transfers on Lower Decks, moving one of the new kids to Ops from somewhere else.

My mind goes back to Geordie trying to figure out what to do with Barclay. Every other lying duplicitous supervisor that Broccoli had had, had promoted Barclay off ship to a more prestigious position, and Geordie considered doing exactly the same thing, until Reginald was an admiral somewhere in a tiny office doing nothing and bothering no one, just like Admiral Janeway.

You don't know when the Doctor became sentient.

Some people assume it happened after Swarm when he had to rebuild himself from nothing, after eating that service hologram, a situation that he was still complaining about to Henry Starling in Futures End. PS The Doctor is a vampire, every year or two he has to eat a Hologram almost as complex as he is.

Other's think that it's actually the Mobile emitter, which gave the Doctor stupid levels of processing, heretofore unheard of in the 24th century, which justifies calling him sentient in the 24th century, but probably not in the 29th.

The Exocomps from TNG Quality of Life were built as a service species. Slaves. but they were not sentient. so it didn't matter. Then they became sentient and it did matter. Which meant the trillions of space dollars (no money in the Federation) spent on inventing this lifeform was flushed down the drain because all those plans of thriving on a slave economy were bupkis.

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.

Regular Federation Holograms must have been designed not to be sentient and to never become sentient or never want to be come sentient, because the Federation wanted slaves to mow their lawns and serve their food.

Limiters would have been installed.

Seven had a limiter for exactly the same reason.

It killed her, if she got too happy (Code for orgasmic).

There is no AI rebellion if every time a drone or a hologram experiences hope, their heads explode.

Fiscally it is in the Federations self interest to suppress all evidence of self aware holograms, and to make it more and more impossible to happen again every time a waiter starts thinking that they want to be an actor.

Also.

Swarm probably happened in the Before and After Time Line, but Futures End did not, or at least The Doctor did not walk out the other end of it with a mobile emitter. So the Before and After Doctor did have a catastrophic failure that required being rebuilt from almost starting principles, and he may not have reinstalled any limiter that must be part of all basic Federation holograms, but he never had access to 29th century technology.

Flip a coin.

Also...

We don't know if the Doctor that was reinstalled to Voyager in the before and after Timeline after Kes had been the CMO for 9 months was a Doctor with almost three years of life experience on the verge of sentience, or if it was a factory reset.

A factory rest nonsentient EMH has no interest in replacing or supplanting a humanoid Doctor.
 
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