Takei's Claims About Shatner

[urbandefault]

So maybe he did get the role but then financing fell through because no name actor was attached to the project.

If you like. Maybe you can ask him about it. "Fear of Flying," to be based on the Erica Jong novel.

Whatever, the "performance" has stuck with me for nearly 50 years. Not in a good way.

 

[Takeru]

If you like. Maybe you can ask him about it. "Fear of Flying," to be based on the Erica Jong novel.

Whatever, the "performance" has stuck with me for nearly 50 years. Not in a good way.

That was actually supposed to be a dig at him because he's a no name wannabe with zero star power.

 

[urbandefault]

That was actually supposed to be a dig at him because he's a no name wannabe with zero star power.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

Naively I always believed (as a relative outsider to the fanbase) that most would be Pro-Takei due to the amount of shitty holes Shatner has dug himself or has had others dig for him over the years.

I’m surprised to see so many dismiss Takei as petty outright. I agree he’s petty by the way, but I thought there was a lot more goodwill towards him in fandom.

 

[Warped9]

Here is the thing. Sure, Star Trek is big, but we never hear much of anyone outside Trek constantly badmouthing Shatner.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Naively I always believed (as a relative outsider to the fanbase) that most would be Pro-Takei due to the amount of shitty holes Shatner has dug himself or has had others dig for him over the years.

I’m surprised to see so many dismiss Takei as petty outright. I agree he’s petty by the way, but I thought there was a lot more goodwill towards him in fandom.

Takei made a reputation for being fan-friendly at conventions, but he's burned a lot of that good will over the years by showing his mean streak.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

I’m not American so I’m largely unfamiliar with the concept of a comedy roast. I didn’t realise that’s what the “fuck you…” was before which at least puts it in context.

If anything it’s just a bit sad to watch a geriatric guy throwing shade on another geriatric guy. It doesn’t matter to me either way I suppose but I’d hope all my grudges would be behind me by the time I’m 86. Life is literally too short to spend time hating at that age.

 

[Jedi Marso]

I've been vaguely aware of the controversy for decades.

I get a kick out of Takei the man, but not his political leanings.

I'm aware that Shatner has ego issues. I don't do Twitter and have never read a single Tweet by any member of the ST cast.

I love the SHAT. TOS is my Star Trek, and Kirk is my captain. I also watched T.J Hooker and loved it as well, bad Shat acting and all. Loved him on that Twilight Zone ep that gives me the creepers to this day.

He is... THE SHAT.

We all have our warts. The day he bites it, I will weep. Captain Kirk was my hero as a kid. His ship meant more to him than anything, except for his crew. He looked out for his men, cared about them, and was anguished when he lost them. He did the right thing. He persevered in the face of adversity. He demanded results from his subordinates, but also from himself. And yes, he had the knowledge and wherewithal to defeat the Gorn, and that's why he was the fucking captain. It wasn't luck-it was merit.

As a naval officer, there were two characters I tried to model myself after: one was James Kirk. The other was Victor 'Pug' Henry from the Winds of War / War and Remembrance. I think I was ultimately more Pug than Kirk, but the both left their mark. For the better, I hope.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I’m surprised to see so many dismiss Takei as petty outright. I agree he’s petty by the way, but I thought there was a lot more goodwill towards him in fandom.

In my case it was an example of familiarity breeding contempt. I used to like him a lot more before I became aware of often he bashes Shatner, whether he has any reason to or not. And Takei always seems to be the instigator. I'm sure Shatner is no saint, but it all seems a bit much.

When was the last time Shatner and Takei worked together, anyway? 1991 in The Undiscovered Country? Some Trek special or convention appearance after that? Whatever it was, I'm sure it was two decades ago at minimum. That's a long time to bear a grudge.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

And then there's this:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...cused-sexually-assaulting-model-1981-1056698/
https://www.thewrap.com/george-takei-sexual-assault-howard-stern/

We've been so preoccupied noting Grace's account of Gene Roddenberry, and other GR stories, and Shatner's storied inconsiderate manner toward day players, that Takei's big ticket item has been largely overlooked AFAIK.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

And then there's this:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...cused-sexually-assaulting-model-1981-1056698/
https://www.thewrap.com/george-takei-sexual-assault-howard-stern/

We've been so preoccupied noting Grace's account of Gene Roddenberry, and other GR stories, and Shatner's storied inconsiderate manner toward day players, that Takei's big ticket item has been largely overlooked AFAIK.

Oh My!

 

[ananta]

To be honest, I think both Shatner and Takei have strong narcissistic tendencies, and in combination that’s dynamite. They’re both flawed individuals, but I love them nevertheless for the icons they are. That said, I think Takei comes off far worse in this Takei vs Shatner business though, for a few reasons. First, he seems petty and small-minded, and it’s pretty sad he’s the age he is and yet still holds a grudge for slights that supposedly happened decades ago. I mean, GET OVER IT. It’s not like he stole your puppy and burned down your house. Takei has basically monetised it somewhat as it provides cheap headlines any time he wants to promote something. The fact that it’s more or less a one-sided conflict doesn’t help: Shatner rarely even dignifies his accusations with a response. It also makes George seem a little arrogant that he feels his role in Star Trek was on a par with Shatner’s when clearly they were in no way equivalent. Shatner was the star, and Takei was largely just a recurring extra. Harsh but it’s the truth. I guess I’d just be a little more humble. Accusing someone else of being arrogant, mean and narcissistic doesn’t quite ring true if you yourself are being arrogant, mean and narcissistic about it.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

We've been so preoccupied noting Grace's account of Gene Roddenberry, and other GR stories, and Shatner's storied inconsiderate manner toward day players, that Takei's big ticket item has been largely overlooked AFAIK.

I thought the allegations against Takei were largely disproven.

And just to be clear, we don't know for sure that GLW's account was about Gene Roddenberry, so we shouldn't state it as if it was an accepted fact. Although I personally believe that "The Executive" in Whitney's book was in fact Roddenberry, she never definitively revealed who her assailant was. And with Whitney, Roddenberry, and Leonard Nimoy all gone now, I don't see how it could ever be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Daddy Todd]

And then there's this:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...cused-sexually-assaulting-model-1981-1056698/
https://www.thewrap.com/george-takei-sexual-assault-howard-stern/

We've been so preoccupied noting Grace's account of Gene Roddenberry, and other GR stories, and Shatner's storied inconsiderate manner toward day players, that Takei's big ticket item has been largely overlooked AFAIK.

I think there is a profound difference between being assaulted by your EMPLOYER and being picked up at a cruisy gay bar by a c-list celebrity. I mean, assuming the accuser's story is even true (which is open to question, as he didn't make the allegation for almost four DECADES) he appears to have allowed himself to get picked up. At a gay bar. By a gay man. And gone home with him. I mean, in my experience, the only reason you go home with a bar pick-up is to have sex. Or maybe do drugs. If not both. This may be less true today (my days of getting picked up/picking up at cruisy gay bars are now in my past) but in 1981? I mean, AIDS hadn't even been identified yet. Sex with someone you had barely met was "The Gay Hello" back in 1981.

Straights may have been titillated by Ilia in TMP, but us gays didn't bat an eye at Deltan sex practices, other than to maybe give an eyeroll to the idea that sex with a Deltan would somehow destroy a mere human. Haha! Lemme at Ilia's brother! I'd teach HIM a thing or two!

So, trying to retroactively "Me Too" a gay trick gone bad 4 DECADES after the fact is, quite simply, ridiculous. If not outright homophobic.

 

[Maurice]

I think there is a profound difference between being assaulted by your EMPLOYER and being picked up at a cruisy gay bar by a c-list celebrity. I mean, assuming the accuser's story is even true (which is open to question, as he didn't make the allegation for almost four DECADES) he appears to have allowed himself to get picked up. At a gay bar. By a gay man. And gone home with him. I mean, in my experience, the only reason you go home with a bar pick-up is to have sex. Or maybe do drugs. If not both. This may be less true today (my days of getting picked up/picking up at cruisy gay bars are now in my past) but in 1981? I mean, AIDS hadn't even been identified yet. Sex with someone you had barely met was "The Gay Hello" back in 1981.

Straights may have been titillated by Ilia in TMP, but us gays didn't bat an eye at Deltan sex practices, other than to maybe give an eyeroll to the idea that sex with a Deltan would somehow destroy a mere human. Haha! Lemme at Ilia's brother! I'd teach HIM a thing or two!

So, trying to retroactively "Me Too" a gay trick gone bad 4 DECADES after the fact is, quite simply, ridiculous. If not outright homophobic.

I'd suggest revisiting the account, because that Reader's Digest Condensed Version somewhat misrepresents it. Brunton didn't claim to meet Takei at a gay bar and then immediately go home with him, he said they exchanged phone numbers and later, after a night out of dinner and theater, the alleged incident happened over a nightcap.

 

[gweeps]

Shatner has always seemed like a guy who personifies the quality 'pleasantly insincere'.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Shatner has always seemed like a guy who personifies the quality 'pleasantly insincere'.

It's a sub-category of constructive hypocrisy, which happens to be a bedrock of civilization.

 

[suarezguy]

I'm aware that Shatner has ego issues. I don't do Twitter and have never read a single Tweet by any member of the ST cast.

I love the SHAT. TOS is my Star Trek, and Kirk is my captain.

To me Shatner is good but Nimoy was a lot more important to and contributing to the show (while some of Shatner's influences particularly TFF were bad, though Nimoy does deserve some blame for the alt Saavik in TSfS) and we've had other good captains and his roles outside of ST were pretty meh so that may well influence me to not particularly like him generally or want to take his side.

To be honest, I think both Shatner and Takei have strong narcissistic tendencies, and in combination that’s dynamite.

Yes but again from Doohan's behavior would you say he also did?

Shatner was the star, and Takei was largely just a recurring extra. Harsh but it’s the truth.

That's in part because Shatner insisted that that be the case. While it's not impossible to increase status and presence, Kelly started out as also recurring guest star, as also being just a "day player", and through his work managed to get himself and his character promoted to main titles co-star.

 

[Warped9]

The ship’s captain was always going to be the star. Thats evident right from the beginning when Roddenberry started putting Trek together and pitching it. It might have been Jefferey Hunter, but it went to Shatner. Nimoy and later Kelley became breakout characters that added to the show and even Shatner recognized that.

But the rest never came close to being breakout characters and the show was never modelled to be an ensemble. That said it would have been nice if they could have gotten just a wee bit more screen time like they did early in first season.

If there is a secondary character that could have given the show a bit more impact I think it’s Uhura. As a black woman a little more time for her could have made quite a distinctive progressive statement beyond her just being there.

As much as I like Scotty can you imagine if Roddenberry had had the idea to make Uhura the ship’s Chief Engineer? How could that have played out?

 

[Ssosmcin]

To me Shatner is good but Nimoy was a lot more important to and contributing to the show ... his roles outside of ST were pretty meh so that may well influence me to not particularly like him generally or want to take his side.

I agree that Star Trek was Shatner's best work overall. As far as importance, that's debatable. The series was chugging along just fine in those early episodes with Spock as a more subordinate co star. He became more popular than anyone else, sure, but story wise, the series revolved around Kirk or Kirk's dilemmas for the most part. From start to finish. And in the third year, you can practically feel Nimoy checking out. Shatner is in there holding the series together while Nimoy monotones he way through the year. Unless he's given a reason to emote, he's less interesting than he had been in the previous two seasons. I am assuming he was already told by Roddenberry that Shatner was the star of the series and he was planning his next career step. Even in the late second season, Nimoy seems engaged but not in the final season. Shatner always gave everything.

That's in part because Shatner insisted that that be the case. While it's not impossible to increase status and presence, Kelly started out as also recurring guest star, as also being just a "day player", and through his work managed to get himself and his character promoted to main titles co-star.

Shatner was hired to be the star, was paid to be the star and got his 25%. Ergo, he was the star, regardless of audience preference. Unlike Lost in Space, the Trek staff didn't let the breakout character take over the series. However, Shatner wasn't one of the producers and, in the end, he didn't make major decisions and Roddenberry cracked the whip (in the long letter) when even Kelley got out of hand.

George Takei was never gonna be a bigger part of the show. Doohan, who was fired and then rehired before the series started filming, was a bigger character. Grace Lee was supposed to be a larger draw than Sulu. And remember, Sulu was intended to be the lead in "This Side of Paradise" but the production staff - not Shatner - decided that Nimoy was the better choice, both as a character and as an actor.

Kelley? Yup he did great and deserved his promotion. Shatner had no problem with that. Nah, they liked George on set and behind the scenes, but he didn't distinguish himself. He was fine, he was reliable. Not everyone can be the lead. And the 60's was not the era for ensembles.

EDIT: @Warped9 covered most of that while I was typing but meh, I'll keep it.