Do include the “ten-forward” like area we saw fleshed out at Fan Art.
Enterprise Evolution from TOS to TMP
- Thread starter yotsuya
- Start date
Do include the “ten-forward” like area we saw fleshed out at Fan Art.
That was never altered on the studio model and I consider that room to have view screens, not windows.
It seems like the area around the deflector is pained differently on 1701-A, it looks more "solid" and "grey", instead of black with lots of little lit holes.
Do you have thoughts on this?
https://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp2/tmpmissing/tmphd1123.jpg
https://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/ch12/tuchd2170.jpg
Wasn't that a improvement for the "Refit Consitution"?Move the warp core shaft
TOS connie couldn't do that due to horizontal Warp Core?
It depends on how you interpret it. Yotsuya probably is sticking to Andrew Probert's vertical warp core shaft that runs straight down from the impulse deflector crystal in the TMP Enterprise. In TOS there wasn't an obvious warp core shaft but most likely a power transfer conduit. In my interpretation, the warp core shaft runs at an angle following the back of the neck so it leaves alot more room for stuff like turbolift shafts to go between the two hulls. YMMV.
The warp core on the TOS ship is full of questions. My method of tackling that is to look at what we actually saw (the only hint is in That Which Survives) in TOS plus TMP and Enterprise and find a compromise. I'm not as stuck to what is in the dialog as many. So my solution is that in TOS the warp core is horizontal under main engineering. What we see in TWS is the antimatter feed to the intermix. The matter is mixed somewhere aft of that. Then (because there is something on Jefferies cross section) the warp plasma goes up aft of the gallery behind main engineering (I consider this the energizer which converts plasma into power for the ship's system) and then splits between the Nacelles and a feed to the Impulse engines. On main power, everything is run off this. Auxillary power is a set of reactors in the aft end of the saucer that directly power the impulse engines.
For the TMP refit, the warp core has been moved and changed. The intermix chamber is at the base of the vertical shaft. The matter would be stored aft of there and the antimatter in pods surrounding it (see Kimble's cutaway). The energizer was modified between TMP and TWOK (not like that didn't happen several times in TOS) to put the main energizer crystal off of main engineering. In TMP it would have been on a different deck or in that walled off area on the other side of the ship (but that makes a better location for the battery). Plasma flows up through the shaft to the deflection crystal to the impulse engines and horizontally aft to the nacelles. It still has reactors in the aft end of the saucer for auxiliary power. Reliant and Excelsior are identical to this.
Constellation Class, 1701-A, Enterprise B, and all later ships have a vertical warp core where matter is injected at the top, antimatter at the bottom, and the mix is in the middle and then plasma flows aft to the the Nacelles and somewhere branches off to the impulse engines. Intrepid class changes the look of the core back to the TMP style, but the functional design is the same.
The parts that the turbolift has to get around are the energizer and reactors in the saucer, the vertical shaft (in the models that have one) and the warp core and fuel feed. Those things are all clearly on the centerline and the turboshafts have to go around them. The only good place in the TMP refit is in front of the vertical shaft. but with all the changes during the refit, that is something that can change. The plasma feed to the impulse engines doesn't have to go through the middle of the neck. So Jefferies zigzag path would work.
And the Phase II design is very clear because the warp core is vertical, but short and at the base of the pylons. So main engineering doesn't move from TOS to Phase II, but does to TMP. For me the Phase II was the planned upgrade that Scotty pre-empted and enhanced to the the final refit. I'm going to have the Kongo be the test. For those who like Continues, it would have been salvaged and rebuilt first and then Enterprise. There is some question as to what happens with Enterprise between TOS and TMP. 18 months of refit at the end of 2.5 years. So there is a year there unaccounted for. Was Decker in command and conducting missions? Was Enterprise docked and waiting? No answer in canon.
For the TMP refit, the warp core has been moved and changed. The intermix chamber is at the base of the vertical shaft. The matter would be stored aft of there and the antimatter in pods surrounding it (see Kimble's cutaway). The energizer was modified between TMP and TWOK (not like that didn't happen several times in TOS) to put the main energizer crystal off of main engineering. In TMP it would have been on a different deck or in that walled off area on the other side of the ship (but that makes a better location for the battery). Plasma flows up through the shaft to the deflection crystal to the impulse engines and horizontally aft to the nacelles. It still has reactors in the aft end of the saucer for auxiliary power. Reliant and Excelsior are identical to this.
Constellation Class, 1701-A, Enterprise B, and all later ships have a vertical warp core where matter is injected at the top, antimatter at the bottom, and the mix is in the middle and then plasma flows aft to the the Nacelles and somewhere branches off to the impulse engines. Intrepid class changes the look of the core back to the TMP style, but the functional design is the same.
The parts that the turbolift has to get around are the energizer and reactors in the saucer, the vertical shaft (in the models that have one) and the warp core and fuel feed. Those things are all clearly on the centerline and the turboshafts have to go around them. The only good place in the TMP refit is in front of the vertical shaft. but with all the changes during the refit, that is something that can change. The plasma feed to the impulse engines doesn't have to go through the middle of the neck. So Jefferies zigzag path would work.
And the Phase II design is very clear because the warp core is vertical, but short and at the base of the pylons. So main engineering doesn't move from TOS to Phase II, but does to TMP. For me the Phase II was the planned upgrade that Scotty pre-empted and enhanced to the the final refit. I'm going to have the Kongo be the test. For those who like Continues, it would have been salvaged and rebuilt first and then Enterprise. There is some question as to what happens with Enterprise between TOS and TMP. 18 months of refit at the end of 2.5 years. So there is a year there unaccounted for. Was Decker in command and conducting missions? Was Enterprise docked and waiting? No answer in canon.
As later versions of the Excelsior have TWO impulse deflection crystals, could there be two vertical shafts, or would there be a split of the one shaft to reach the two crystals at some point? On a related note, has anyone ever identified what the second power shaft behind the warp core in TNG is?
Generally, I agree, but, and this is just my personal view, since the Constellation class, generally, has an impulse deflection crystal on each side, I like the idea that the warp core is horizontal. I was disappointed to realize that it is shown as vertical on the Hathaway, but I can suppose that either the Hathaway was quickly fitted with something leftover that was not quite ideal for during the tests (it's warp drive was damaged anyway), or, that the true "warp core" in the Constellation class is the short, "fat," 1-2 deck tall unit seen in the episode, which then feeds longer, horizontal units that connect to the impulse deflection crystals.
I can envision that the TAS episodes with stardates above 6000 or 6300 are this. (In this view, the five year mission starts around 1329 with "Mudd's Women," and ends perhaps as late as around 5300, assuming the first digit is a year.) That leaves something like 63--something to 74--something for other missions. Kirk suggests that they have been on a "series" of "missions" in BEM, which has a stardate of 7403, almost to close to TMP (highest stardate in TAS, if it is not an error). BEM might have even been on the ship for several episodes and not shown himself in that case, which would be weird.
You probably are already aware that, it Star Trek: Elite Force II, the Excelsior is depicted this way, with the bulge on the secondary hull being and Engineering section. This makes the engines too separated from the rest of the ship in my view, especially because that does not connect them with the impulse deflection crystals, but the Transwarp version of the ship might have been this way to accommodate changing the engines as designs evolved, I guess. Doug Drexler claimed on Trekyards on Youtube that the structure between the engines on the NX-01, which was apparently an uninhabited "symmetrical warp governor" on the show was originally the location of the engine room so that it could be changed out, jettisoned, etc., as the ship was tested in actual use. The producers apparently made him move it because they wanted to get way from "ejecting the core" as a plot solution.
I'm not really concerned with what the parts are in TNG. I'm not sure where that shaft originates or where it goes. but we don't see anything of the 1701-A, Hathaway, Excelsior, or Enterprise B engine room. for that to matter. what I am drawing is that previous vertical shaft to the deflection crystal is now that shaft and it splits to the two crystals (one for each impulse engine). I'm going to have the split at the top of the Excelsior vertical shaft since it has a TMP style core (m/am mix at the base).
The core is still vertical. there is a feed to the crystals that is separate.
Decker very clearly says that Kirk hasn't logged a single star hour in 2 1/2 years. So TAS is NOT in this period but before that. This is an entire year post Kirk when we don't know if the Enterprise was voyaging or in dock awaiting the refit.
While I generally think the MSD's we see on screen are little more than a vague guide to the ship's internal layout, the Ent B MSD is very clear that the warp core is under the neck and the plasma conduit goes through the bulge, but that places main engineering in the forward end of the secondary hull. I'm sticking to that. I've corrected a lot of the details and resized the warp core (for such a large ship it is rather tiny).
Ok. Thanks for the clarification. I think that is similar to the Hayes manual.
Overall, I think that makes more sense than what was shown on the Dallas.
I gotta agree with Venom Geek Media here on the Constitution Refit.
There was one fundamental design flaw, and the new Vertical Warp Core was WAY too close to the Photon Torpedo Room and literally ran past it with only a few weak walls to seperate them.
I'm glad that issue was resolved on later vessels and that the Miranda Class didn't have those issues.
This could also explain why "Refit" programs are generally not done that often.
There was one fundamental design flaw, and the new Vertical Warp Core was WAY too close to the Photon Torpedo Room and literally ran past it with only a few weak walls to seperate them.
I'm glad that issue was resolved on later vessels and that the Miranda Class didn't have those issues.
This could also explain why "Refit" programs are generally not done that often.
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The video seems to be missing the point that a full power phaser or photon torpedo hit on an unshielded ship at close range is instant death (see "Day of the Dove") or at a distance is crew death (see "The Ultimate Computer").
Unshielded, both the Enterprise and Reliant were effectively crippled with a few well placed, low powered shots.
If you want a design flaw - look at the E-D's port or starboard power coupling which seems to fail at the worst times despite having shields up and a significant amount more of hull material in the way.
Note the big ass shock absorbers in the torpedo bay. Speaks heavy reinforcement to me.
It's a non-issue moving foreward in time for newer StarFleet ship designs.
There is no indication of any weakness or flaw in the refit. Enterprise gets shot on one side and the other torpedo still works. No structural issues before warp. The vertical shaft goes up between the tubes. We see that the deck below is closed above, so no huge opening. Plenty of stuctural members. So no huge flaw.Note the big ass shock absorbers in the torpedo bay. Speaks heavy reinforcement to me.
I've been idle for far too long on this project. But I might as well post the progress I did make. I was starting with the Richard Taylor version and I finally got the nacelle position and pylons worked out to my satisfaction. So here are my working drawings (hence the various colors).
My assumption has been that David Kimble had access to the drawings that Richard Taylor made. But the final position and shape of the pylons was not set and some of the details were not finalized. But the shapes were. So I have followed Kimble's drawings. And like any of these projects, I have checked every detail as I go with the studio model. My goal is to be faithful to the studio model and to Kimble's (his internal details were based on Andrew Probert's work). If I ever get to a point where I put a legend on these drawings I will be crediting Jefferies, Taylor, and Probert on the final design as all three should share the credit.
My assumption has been that David Kimble had access to the drawings that Richard Taylor made. But the final position and shape of the pylons was not set and some of the details were not finalized. But the shapes were. So I have followed Kimble's drawings. And like any of these projects, I have checked every detail as I go with the studio model. My goal is to be faithful to the studio model and to Kimble's (his internal details were based on Andrew Probert's work). If I ever get to a point where I put a legend on these drawings I will be crediting Jefferies, Taylor, and Probert on the final design as all three should share the credit.
