Enterprise Evolution from TOS to TMP

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by yotsuya, Jul 23, 2019.

  1. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    For a long time I have been under the impression that the TMP refit Enterprise was desgined by Richard Taylor with refinements by Andrew Probert. As I transition from drafting the TOS Enterprise and begin heading toward the TMP refit, I decided to first visit the Phase II design. I had previously made a layered drawing with the TOS design, Franz Joseph's design, and the refit design. The changes are interesting. Today I inserted the two Phase II drawings (there is the early drawing and one updated to reflect changes as the physical model was built. It just blew my mind away. All Richard Taylor did was to change the pylons, nacelles, and hanger. The lines are virtually identical. That means that our dear Matt Jefferies is really responsible for the design of the refit. He expanded the saucer, he enclosed the deflector dish, he extended the neck and drew the lines. Richard Taylor redid the pylon and nacelles and changed the hanger and the Andrew Probert redid the Bridge and B/C deck, lower sensor dome, and the details around the Deflector. Plus the design went from smooth gray finish to paneled pearl white.

    So while that particular part kind of surprised me and rewrites the design credit for the refit, we have to go back further than that to fill in all the pieces to the design history. Some things go back to the TOS production and the earliest drawings of the Enterprise. What we think of as the classic TOS Enterprise lines (and I reject the newer Star Trek's attempts to refresh the design and am ignoring them) were the combined effort of Jefferies and Richard Datin. Datin simplified the shapes (in some ways) when he created the 3 foot model and further refined them for the 11 foot model. Jefferies drawings of the ship that appeared in a couple of episodes and The Making of Star Trek showed a slightly different design.

    [​IMG]
    The very straight lines of the series (and even the AMT kit) have an additional curve added. This drawing has a more pronounced curve than Jefferies original drawings, but he always had the secondary hull a bit curvier than how it was built. Franz Joseph gets into the picture in 1974 with his Booklet of General Plans and in 1975 with his Technical Manual and he used that curve, adding some bulk and shape to the secondary hull. Jefferies drawings are also the source of the B/C or decks 2/3 bulge having a more rounded shape in back than the tear drop as Datin built it.

    So we arrive at Phase II. Matt Jefferies was working on Little House on the Prairie and found time to design a new Enterprise. There were a few steps in the middle involving Mike Minor (who maybe should get the credit for going from a dish sticking out to an enclosed dish and changing the engines), but the major design changes came from Jefferies. This time his drawings were large and detailed and he went so far as to create the deck layout and included a figure for scale. His initial drawing went to the model builders, Don Loos and Brick Price. Between them we got this:

    [​IMG]

    The ship is roughly the same length as the TOS Enterprise, but the saucer and secondary hull, even the neck, are larger while the nacelles are shorter. All the major design elements of the TMP refit are in place.

    Then Phase II morphed from a series into a movie. Better sets and models were needed. The work did not entirely go to waste. The Phase II model would get one brief moment onscreen as a stand in for the refit when the Enterprise blew up and burned in Star Trek III.

    It fell to Richard Taylor to carry the design forward. I have always assumed that he started from scratch. It turns out that like the Klingon ship, which has a similar design history, Taylor took the existing design and went forward. He took on redesigning the warp nacelles and came up with this:
    [​IMG]

    The differences melt away when you put the images together.
    [​IMG]

    Virtually the entire surface has been altered, but the basic shape that lies under them has remained the same. We've gone from rectangular windows to round, a new impusle engine, new photon torpedos (for Phase II that was the phaser), adopting the Franz Joseph phase banks, the new round airlocks, boxing in the bridge turbolifts, and redrawing the deflector grid. When the production shuffled around and Andrew Probert came onboard, we got the final changes that mask the features further, but not the shapes of the hull.

    Anyway, I'm starting this thread because I intend to redraw each of the Phase II, Taylor, and final refit versions. I'm going to start with the basic shape that each share and then split the file to finish each separately when they details start to branch apart.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  2. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    Oh, while I find the on paper development interesting, I will be focusing on the models as constructed, not on every variation in design during the process. So while Matt Jefferies had a completely different slope to the top of the saucer in his first Phase II design, I'm going to focus on how it was executed on the model. Same with Richard Taylors version. His design drawings have a different position for the botanical windows and for the entire nacelle which I will not be addressing - just how the models were built. The one exception to this is that I might try to create a version of Franz Joseph's design that is more in line with the other two body styles to make an intermediate version and Mike Minor's early Phase II concept, but that will be after the main Phase II and TMP versions. But the small variations between the design and how it was executed don't interest me except to figure out how the model looked. That is hard with the Phase II design and some pieces of Richard Taylor's design that got changed so some guessing will be involved in those areas. Like I probably will take the slight differences in the Phase II and RT Refit upper bulge and align them to the best approximation and the undercut on the saucer will be the same. Neither of these two version exist except in pictures and plans so I don't feel bad about making two versions that are so nearly identical be identical in those features.
     
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  3. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    And here is the beginning...
    [​IMG]
     
  4. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ironically, the odd looking saucer of the three-footer actually matches this Phase II/early refit better than other TOS offerings.

    No wonder Aridas called it Constitution (II) in his Heavy Cruiser evolution charts. The 33 incher would be the Connie itself--and looks the most roomy.

    BTW, thank you so much for doing this.

    The refit secondary hull really looks porky for TOS though
    http://www.shawcomputing.net/racerx/trek_stuff/What_If.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  5. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    And some more progress. I'm building pieces of the different views in the profile so those are the shapes for the main top, bottom, and front views. Trying to keep most very generic for the Taylor refit as that really goes both back to the Phase II and forward to the TMP refit. But there are a few TMP pieces in there already. I'm keeping the shapes as close to the Kimble TMP drawings as possible and checking everything with photos.

    [​IMG]

    Any astute observer might notice that the nacelles are not positioned according to the Kimble drawings or according to Slade. I determined that both were wrong and have lined the nacelles up to be lower. Jackill got the same position. The grid and ports are there because I needed them for the cross section. Kimble got a lot of the deflector details wrong. I've been using the Taylor refit drawing for that area and cross checking with the centerline and the front details to get the side details. The Taylor refit and Phase II are much simpler so I did the harder TMP refit first.

    Again, these are going to match the models as built, not the original working drawings.
     
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  6. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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  7. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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  8. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    A progress update - Phase II
    [​IMG]

    And the Refit
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    I stumbled on an interesting video thanks to Facebook. It is an interview with Mark Stetson, Jim Dow, Richard Taylor and Paul Olsen, the team behind the TMP model.



    From that I gleaned a very important piece of data. They designed and built the refit model to an exact scale. They wanted a 12 foot model, which would have been to the scale of 1 1/2" = 10 '. But in the end they built it to 1" = 10'. So the model is 100" long and the ship is 1000' feet long. That means every detail is designed to scale. It also means they kept Jefferies scale of the Phase II and TOS ships. Very nice consistency. So far the only big flaw of Kimble's drawings have been the position of the warp nacelles.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  10. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    Also, some of the older images I've posted may not come up. There seems to be a problem with the website. I am changing hosts so all the new images should be higher resolution and more reliable.
     
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  11. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I hope you revisit that decision when done.I'd like to see the mini-variations

    The toy companies must have had this drawing. The Mego toy also has that (red?) circle that laps just below the word USS Enterprise: http://bugeyedmonster.com/star-trek-tmp-mego-enterprise-box/
    http://bugeyedmonster.com/star-trek-tmp-mego-enterprise2/

    Similar:
    http://bugeyedmonster.com/star-trek-the-motion-picture/sttmp-grand-toys/

    This model was used for the STARLOG Photo Guidebook
    https://www.robertgavora.com/pages/...-new-enlarged-edition-starlog-photo-guidebook

    Due to Kimble--there have not been a lot of fan attempts draw the refit that didn't take cues from it--the polar opposite of Excelsior.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2019
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  12. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    Jackill redrew it and did the best job I have yet seen. It mostly matches Kimble's drawings (I firmly believe the saucer, secondary hull, and pylons are accurate to the model, but a lot of the details and some of the things about the nacelles aren't right). I've actualy been using Taylor's drawings more than Kimble's for some things and I have been making sure everything lines up properly between views. And as always, I compare to the photos to see how the model actually turned out. the Bridge and B/C deck dome for Taylor and the Phase II version is going to have to be based on a drawing. I'm going to us Taylor's because I believe it represents how the movie model was originally constructed and I feel that the Phase II model was likely the source for Taylor's original plan. Especially when I found out that the models were in the same shop where the movie enterprise was built. So it seems Phase II, like the movie, went through some staffing changes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
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  13. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It makes so, so much more sense to me if TMP happens ten years post TOS just as happened in real life. The 5YM ends, there is a refit to Phase II configuration and another one or two (unseen) 5YM under Commodore Kirk, THEN the refit to TMP and Kirk’s promotion to rear admiral. It all flows more sensibly this way, to me.

    Plus it leaves a lot more room for new stories to be told.
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, the dialogue certainly reflects that: the "it all will happen 300 years sharp after airdate" premise is supported in full by it being "over" 300 years since the Voyager 6 probe disappeared, which shouldn't happen until 2278 or so given the 1977 launch of the real Voyagers (a date fixed by the Grand Tour window - of course Voyager 6 might not have been a Grand Tour probe, but then the identical design would make little sense).

    Time for the ship to be redone a couple of times, rather than just changed from "TOS configuration" to "TMP configuration" (which already ignores the TOS changes that would no doubt have required some dockyard time in-universe).

    Timo Saloniemi
     
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  15. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    I'm sticking to the timeline that has TMP happen on the heels of Kirk's first 5YM. Then a 5YM after that before the TWOK. The way I see it is that while the Enterprise was out on her mission, Starfleet was busy testing the next generation warp drive. The Phase II design was and upgrade to a different ship and the Enterprise was slated for that. Then when that test wasn't quite what they expected, the upgrade was altered to the early TMP refit (Richard Taylor's original design). The Enterprise comes back and starts that, but in the middle they change it (This is Scotty we are talking about) and the refit ends up being more extensive (in terms of ship's systems like channeling the phasers through the main engines) with some additional surface changes.

    I also see Starfleet building other ships along the way so there may be more than one of the Phase II or Taylor refits flying around out there, just not the Enterprise. And by then they are working on the Excelsior so development for the Constitution Class stops. And moving forward there are three variations of the Excelsior Class and the Constellation Class. Some fans like to say the Achernar was built looking like FJ's version and then the Mike Minor early Phase II was based off of FJ's plans, but with a different nacelle.

    So I see Starfleet always on a quest for faster and more powerful ships so there are a lot of refits and this is not a new thing but something that has been ongoing for decades. The proposed NX class refit that was supposed to show up in Enterprise season 5 fits right in with that. I'm also working on a couple of class designs between the Daedalus and Constitution Classes. In my mind, the Daedalus Class was the Federation's first starship was was designed by a multi species committee so it doesn't fit with the NX or Constitution design in many ways, but the other ships would. I'm also going to make a Shenzhou and Kelvin that fit with a pre-Pike/Constitution Class design. I personally feel that everything about the 2009 movie and sequels and Discovery are set in parallel universes. That is the only explanation as to why Spock did not try to go back and fix things. But I like that the Kelvin is a single nacelles design and I think the Shenzhou is a really cool ship (except for where the bridge is). But that is after I get the Phase II/Taylor Refit/TMP Refit done.
     
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  16. Ithekro

    Ithekro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The large scale of the Kelvin/Shenzhou era ships could be attributed to the warp drives needing to be larger to reach speeds of warp 7 or even warp 8 (goes along with the Vulcan starships that could make up to warp 7 being nearly as large as a Galaxy-class starship), and that the smaller Constitution-class was the revolutionary refinement of the Cochrane drives to get high speeds on a smaller hull. Sort of like how USS Voyager is reportedly much faster than the large Galaxy-class starships due to new styles of warp geometry while also having a much smaller warp core (more in line with the 70-80s era Constitution-class USS Enterprise)

    They were still crew intensive, but not nearly as much as the Kelvin type. Of course that goes with the computer revolutions that are on display in Discovery. Kirk's era, and the need for double the personal on the Enterprise could be a result of the removal of a lot of the 50's era A.I. from these starships, while the Cage era Pike Enterprise reflects the reduced crew needed for a ship with better A.I. and other automated systems. Kirk's crew size also might reflect war time staffing needed of Starfleet, since they remain, basically on a war footing with the Klingons until Khitomer.
     
  17. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    Good point about the war footing and crew size, but I disagree about the size of the ships themselves. As far as I'm concerned, everything oversized belongs in an alternate universe, not the prime timeline. The Kelvin's registry starts with a 0 and nothing about the design feels pre TOS. Same with Discovery. Both have enlarged the ships without really thinking logically about it. I think Voyager is smaller because they wanted a smaller ship. It is still larger than the TOS or Movie Refit Enterprise. It's engines are proportional to the Galaxy Class and much smaller than the TOS or Refit.
     
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  18. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    Here is the latest progress. I have most of the parts roughed in for both the Taylor refit and the final TMP refit.
    [​IMG]

    Richard Taylor spent a lot of time tweaking the nacelles and the final tweaks aren't shown in his or Kimble's drawings so I'm trying to pull those out. The nacelles are comprised of two main pieces, a tube that tapes in the back and a strange rounded trapezoid. This is true for the Phase II nacelles as well, though the details are much different. I have aligned the nacelles to where they meet the edge of the saucer. While some Trek ships suffer from sagging nacelles, the refit never has. The original studio model has a welded aluminum frame that is designed for 5 mounting configurations and after all these years shows no signs of sagging (both at Christie's auction and now in the Blue Origin facility where it is on display). I have a few more things to determine before I really start roughing out all the views. I want to finalize the nacelles first.
     
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  19. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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  20. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

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    Yeah, the aft end of the nacelles is a tube. And the model is white. Even after everything. It is still white and a lot of it is the original paint with a dullcoat for bluescreen work. Sadly the pearlescent effect is largely gone.