That people find the expression of compliments and emotions as laughable disturbs me greatly.
Why Do All the Conversation Seem So Melodramatic
- Thread starter TRON JA307020
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I thought fireproof78's point was self-evident within the show, too. When any human being has suffered severe trauma, when has it ever worked to say "Just stop feeling emotions. That's the answer."
Maybe it works for Vulcans, but not for humans, especially since Burnham spent the first part of her childhood being raised by her human parents. Sweeping that kind of thing under the rug would just postpone, prolong and exacerbate the rawness of the grieving process. So seeing Burnham embrace her emotions again was a big step in the right direction.
It's not like Star Trek never dealt with this theme before. Anyone remember the kid who wanted to emulate Data so he didn't feel sad because his mom died?
I agree with both @fireproof78 & @NewHeavensNewEarth. I felt like we saw Michael’s development occur onscreen, and that it wasn’t all that sudden of a character change.
She was still dealing with her repressed emotions throughout Seasons 1 & 2, something we see through her relationships with Sarek, Ash, Tilly and Spock. After she came to the future in Season 3 we see her adapting to a new environment, alone, and she would break away from the Vulcan tendencies even more than she had already began to.
It takes her over a year to admit her own feelings for Book, and only after prodding from Mirror Georgiou and an extreme situation where Book’s life had been threatened. To me, Michael’s resistance and slowness to accept her attraction to, affection for and bond with Book is a direct example of her development as a character.
It shows her being a fully emotional human who at this point has spent most of her her life outside of Vulcan culture, but is still dealing with the ramifications of a large portion of her formative years being raised with Vulcan tenets and philosophies.
She was still dealing with her repressed emotions throughout Seasons 1 & 2, something we see through her relationships with Sarek, Ash, Tilly and Spock. After she came to the future in Season 3 we see her adapting to a new environment, alone, and she would break away from the Vulcan tendencies even more than she had already began to.
It takes her over a year to admit her own feelings for Book, and only after prodding from Mirror Georgiou and an extreme situation where Book’s life had been threatened. To me, Michael’s resistance and slowness to accept her attraction to, affection for and bond with Book is a direct example of her development as a character.
It shows her being a fully emotional human who at this point has spent most of her her life outside of Vulcan culture, but is still dealing with the ramifications of a large portion of her formative years being raised with Vulcan tenets and philosophies.
So in real life you get all misty eyed and get a complimentsry and flattering with everyone you interact with like coworkers. No one gets this emotional and complimentary everyday. It's like every single character pat each other on the back all the time. They are doing their jobs. That's whats expected of them. It's poor writing for sure
Admittedly, my experience working for big corporations has tracked with the old saw, "Doing a good job here is like wetting your pants in a dark suit. You get a warm feeling, but nobody notices."
Or perhaps your experience is different due to who you are and how you interact with others.
People in general ldon't act like that everyday and in every conversation. If it was one characte fine but it's nearly every single one. It's a sign of poor writing. The writer doesn't know how to give each character their own personality. I mean really it's so obvious. Lol
Nah. You just don't like it.
That's how people talk at my work pretty much daily. Save for the crying. But it is highly complimentary and edifying.
Recently? Yes, actually.
You saying "no one" just indicates a different experience. But it's not everyone's experience.
They all talk like they have emotional lumps in their throats constantly. Its so funny and badly written. I've never encountered that in everyday life from everyone and everyday. Lol
Personally I've had no problem with Burnham's development over the four seasons as she grows beyond her Vulcan upbringing (especially as flashbacks early in the series show her behaving even more Vulcan). I think each of the showrunners has generally gotten Burnham right.
The trouble is that every other character seems to have been on a journey to the same place, with every one of them now as sensitive as they are considerate, and painfully earnest. I've been watching Legends of Tomorrow at the same time, and those characters are just as much of a loving family as the Discovery crew, but they're so much more interesting to watch and so much more relatable because they can joke around and argue with each other. There's a joy in how they play off each other and a spark to their dialogue that just isn't there in Discovery in season 4.
Oh, I could've used Picard as an example instead. The characters in that are way way more interesting than Disco's s4 cast to me, to the point where I enjoy every episode just because I get to watch them interact. They're holding their show together, while Disco's characters have been holding theirs back.
Obviously this is all my own opinion, I'm just saying that anyone who has a problem with Disco's dialogue lately isn't alone.
The trouble is that every other character seems to have been on a journey to the same place, with every one of them now as sensitive as they are considerate, and painfully earnest. I've been watching Legends of Tomorrow at the same time, and those characters are just as much of a loving family as the Discovery crew, but they're so much more interesting to watch and so much more relatable because they can joke around and argue with each other. There's a joy in how they play off each other and a spark to their dialogue that just isn't there in Discovery in season 4.
Oh, I could've used Picard as an example instead. The characters in that are way way more interesting than Disco's s4 cast to me, to the point where I enjoy every episode just because I get to watch them interact. They're holding their show together, while Disco's characters have been holding theirs back.
Obviously this is all my own opinion, I'm just saying that anyone who has a problem with Disco's dialogue lately isn't alone.
Yeah Picards cast and writing is better. They aren't gushing over each other every second. Lol
Luckily Madalorian/Boba came on roughly the same era as DSC. So it provides a comparison.
Mando has a much more stoic (yeah, yeah, I use that term in the common understanding of it, not the historically accurate one) vibe, more naturalistic dialog, except between Mandalorians when waxing religious., haha. But those clearly stand out.
With that as a comparison it’s just disingenuous to deny that DSC has a much different, much more emotional vibe and IMPORTANT speeches and dialog. Moments where we’re more or less told to feel.
Mando, I had NO expectations of, never watched a Clone Wars ever. I prefer its tone, true.
Look, I fully wanted to like DSC. Kept giving it chances. I couldn’t take it anymore, it was so sappy. Like it if you like it, that’ truly fine. But don’t deny it has a melodrama vibe. And don’t paint people who call it for what it is as “just haters.”
Mando has a much more stoic (yeah, yeah, I use that term in the common understanding of it, not the historically accurate one) vibe, more naturalistic dialog, except between Mandalorians when waxing religious., haha. But those clearly stand out.
With that as a comparison it’s just disingenuous to deny that DSC has a much different, much more emotional vibe and IMPORTANT speeches and dialog. Moments where we’re more or less told to feel.
Mando, I had NO expectations of, never watched a Clone Wars ever. I prefer its tone, true.
Look, I fully wanted to like DSC. Kept giving it chances. I couldn’t take it anymore, it was so sappy. Like it if you like it, that’ truly fine. But don’t deny it has a melodrama vibe. And don’t paint people who call it for what it is as “just haters.”
That's fine. It's not funny. People need those type of environments. You don't. That's fine, but it isn't funny to people who are told not to feel their whole life. It might not be for you but it is for me.
No one is calling people haters for not liking the emotional expression. That's fine. What I will push back against is that "no one acts this way." Sorry, that doesn't fly for me. I work with people who do act this way. Maybe not that over the top, but then this is drama. No one acted like Shakespeare in Shakespeare's time either.
But, more than that, I push back against the denial of emotionatlity which is so common in my interactions with people. Like, I'm sorry, people have emotions and the "stiff upper lip" isn't for everyone. A true stoic is one who is aware of emotions but doesn't allow them to control them. Burnham isn't there yet; neither isn't the rest of the crew. They have experienced significant trauma and the response I see a lot is "they should get over it and not act this way."
I agree it's not for everyone. But it is for me. It is the world that I have longed for since being mocked in 6th grade for liking TOS over TNG. It pains me that this place feels less accepting than I would hope. I would genuinely hope it would be able to acknowledge, like you do, "this isn't for me but I'm glad it is for someone" instead of going "LOL. They have feels."
That's fine. It's not funny. People need those type of environments. You don't. That's fine, but it isn't funny to people who are told not to feel their whole life. It might not be for you but it is for me.
No one is calling people haters for not liking the emotional expression. That's fine. What I will push back against is that "no one acts this way." Sorry, that doesn't fly for me. I work with people who do act this way. Maybe not that over the top, but then this is drama. No one acted like Shakespeare in Shakespeare's time either.
But, more than that, I push back against the denial of emotionatlity which is so common in my interactions with people. Like, I'm sorry, people have emotions and the "stiff upper lip" isn't for everyone. A true stoic is one who is aware of emotions but doesn't allow them to control them. Burnham isn't there yet; neither isn't the rest of the crew. They have experienced significant trauma and the response I see a lot is "they should get over it and not act this way."
I agree it's not for everyone. But it is for me. It is the world that I have longed for since being mocked in 6th grade for liking TOS over TNG. It pains me that this place feels less accepting than I would hope. I would genuinely hope it would be able to acknowledge, like you do, "this isn't for me but I'm glad it is for someone" instead of going "LOL. They have feels."
It's fine that you like it. I'm not saying you shouldn't. But for it's place in star trek it's characters are written to much alike for my taste. It's too obvious that the writer is having difficulty finding a unique voice for each character so he writes then all the same way. Emotional, gushing each other all the tim etc. Stamets was the one true character I liked because he wasn't falling all over Burnham telling her how amazing she was. Thats over and he's now a gusher of compliments and back pats. It's just getting tiring. I preferred Burnham when she was a mutineer and made mistakes. Now it's like every other scene someone is emotionally telling her how great she is. Kirk didn't get that many compliments.
Kirk ran his crew differently. That's a feature not a bug. Certainly not an "LOL" moment.
It's almost like different people need different things from their leaders. If only we had some way to communicate about differences. Some sort of acronym. *snaps fingers * I just can't think of one.
It's a mystery...
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Completely agree. These characters always seem to be on the brink of a mental breakdown. The way they communicate and the times they are communicating (in the midst of a battle, during a hours when Earth could be destroyed) is so laughable and completely unprofessional from a Starfleet point of view. Season 4 was terribly written.
Ever since Paradise took over, emotions did as well.
Ever since Paradise took over, emotions did as well.
From The Cage.
Characters discussing doubts, feelings and insecurities in Star Trek is so far from new.
Neither is fans holding shows they don't like to different standards to shows they do like.
TNG had a similar issue as Discovery in that it lacked conflict within the regulars. I think what your noticing is the TNG crew were written like work friends and between the military discipline they had they were written to be pretty serious and professional. It's one of the contrasts were the show works badly next to TOS were KIrk/Spock and Bones are basically brothers.
Discovery on the other hand has it's characters lacking the professional discipline of TNG but it still shares TNG's lack of internal conflict that TOS did have. They ideally could have been more TOS like in showing these characters care about each other but still get in tons of conflict like you would see between Kirk/Spock/Bones but the characters are to nice to each to feel like they really do care about each other because real family and friends tend to sometimes get into fights with each other.
All the over the top PC and politeness between the characters make them feel less like family that love each other but get into fights sometimes but more like they have come from some ubber progressive Stepford Wives community where everyone is pleasant and nice and worry about feelings but it is hard to relate to if your a modern screwed up human like most of us are.
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