Lt. Charlene Masters -- an explanation

[Mres_was_framed!]

Reference is occasionally made to "the crew," in which case it is a generalized statement meant to include everyone aboard the ship. A reference to "senior officers" would refer to a much smaller, specific group of the crew members.

Wish I had seen this sooner. That was exactly what I was trying to say about Spock, and apparently not making clear. When he says "officers," he means, essentially, the "department heads" plus Kirk, so he means Scotty, McCoy, etc. When he says "crew" he means everybody else, regardless of rank.

It makes sense to me that in this possible future, officers and enlisted work side by side and do the same jobs (up to a point). It does muddy the terminology between "officer" the ranks and "officer" the position. But what would be a better term for all those who serve onboard a star ship than "officers" or "crew"? Astronauts probable sounded to current, but they literally appear to work like "sailors" traveling the "stars" so I guess that would not be out of the question

 

[J.T.B.]

Wish I had seen this sooner. That was exactly what I was trying to say about Spock, and apparently not making clear. When he says "officers," he means, essentially, the "department heads" plus Kirk, so he means Scotty, McCoy, etc. When he says "crew" he means everybody else, regardless of rank.

But they aren't the same thing. "Senior officers" implies a subset of officers, while "officers and crew" implies two different categories.

 

[cooleddie74]

Senior officers are the Captain, Commanders, Lieutenant Commanders and Lieutenants in charge of major ship's departments. Officers and crew implies everyone with a CO rank as well as enlisted, crewmen and, say, Cadets traveling and training on said ship.

 

[Neopeius]

She's a temp, filling in for Scott. She left Starbase without a uniform and none were in stock that fit her.

But they had one for Khan; being a superman, it was a perfect fit!

 

[Nerys Myk]

But they had one for Khan; being a superman, it was a perfect fit!

The shoes were too tight, but he didn't want to show weakness in front of lesser beings.

 

[J.T.B.]

The shoes were too tight, but he didn't want to show weakness in front of lesser beings.

Maybe that's really why he kept growing fatigued.

 

[Hofner]

The shoes were too tight, but he didn't want to show weakness in front of lesser beings.

That's how Kirk was able to best him in a fight. His feet were just killing him.

Robert

 

[cooleddie74]

If you had to stand upright in dress shoes all the time and welcome people to Fantasy Island you'd be fatigued, too!

 

[GNDN18]

 

[dupersuper]

She's a temp, filling in for Scott. She left Starbase without a uniform and none were in stock that fit her.

She could've replicated one. Discovery shows uniform replicators in 2256.

 

[Mres_was_framed!]

But they aren't the same thing. "Senior officers" implies a subset of officers, while "officers and crew" implies two different categories.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just suggesting that, while the Enterprise apparently has "officers" and "enlisted" the distinction is meaningless--most of the time.

A special commendation would not be one of those times.

Imagine being a "Chief Petty Officer" or some equivalent rank in Starfleet, and doing a job with a LTCMDR as a peer. But then, one day, he gets to be promoted to CMDR and becomes first officer, while you stay where you are. Some would be content with that; some would go back for more training, and some would have gone the Academy first to avoid having to worry about it later. It works as an explanation for what we see onscreen, since it takes an apparent inconsistency and making it seem to fit most cases we see onscreen. I know we are talking TOS, but it would also fit O'brien and possibly Rand's ranks in the movies: she's displaying LT insignia sometimes, and enlisted ranks someimtes.

 

[Nerys Myk]

She could've replicated one. Discovery shows uniform replicators in 2256.

They replicated Nazi uniforms in Patterns of Force on TOS.

 

[cooleddie74]

More of a wardrobe synthesizer, but yeah, you could quickly manufacture different clothing aboard starships even during DSC and TOS. As rapidly as Kirk ordered McCoy put in an SS Doctor's uniform and he materialized dressed in it there's no way it couldn't fabricate the outfit in a matter of seconds. A minute at most.

 

[Neopeius]

More of a wardrobe synthesizer, but yeah, you could quickly manufacture different clothing aboard starships even during DSC and TOS. As rapidly as Kirk ordered McCoy put in an SS Doctor's uniform and he materialized dressed in it there's no way it couldn't fabricate the outfit in a matter of seconds. A minute at most.

Why do folks always choose the more complex explanation? There's no evidence for wardrobe synthesizers or uniform replicators.

Those uniforms were clearly leftovers from a shipboard production of Bent.

 

[cooleddie74]

Or 23rd century Hogan's Heroes cosplay.

 

[Neopeius]

Or 23rd century Hogan's Heroes cosplay.

That one's even better.

 

[cooleddie74]

I hope Admiral Komack never finds out Kirk has a secret lab hidden under Main Engineering.

 

[Neopeius]

So, going back through the 1st season, I realized -- so far as I can remember there are no Ensigns explicitly mentioned by rank at all.

We get them in the second season (Ensigns Chekov and Garrovick jumping to mind) but there are none in the first season. With the sprinkling of rating-esque titles in the first season, and none going forward (with the possible exception of Watkins), that certainly points to a transition toward an "all officer" fleet over the course of the show.

I wonder if the "all officer" concept wasn't in the first two writers' guides -- the third revision that we have was penned after the 1st season was done. But I also find it interesting that we've got officer ranks all the way down to Lieutenant J.G. but no Ensigns. Like no writer for the show even thought to have an Ensign, a common rank at the time.

Anyone have any insight on this?

 

[J.T.B.]

So, going back through the 1st season, I realized -- there are no Ensigns explicitly mentioned by rank at all.

Not quite, there is Ensign O'Neal mentioned in "The Galileo Seven" and the personnel officer in "Court Martial," who in turn mentions the former Ensign Kirk.

 

[Neopeius]

Not quite, there is Ensign O'Neal mentioned in "The Galileo Seven" and the personnel officer in "Court Martial," who in turn mentions the former Ensign Kirk.

Ahhh. Thank you for that.

The latter is not dispositive since it reflects a command structure more than a decade old, but the former one is.