We had five-star Generals and Admirals. By the 1960s I believe Omar Bradley was the last living five-star General and his rank was largely ceremonial by his later years.
Lt. Charlene Masters -- an explanation
- Thread starter Neopeius
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I guess Gene Roddenberry was getting very revisionist in his old age.
Considering most of the scripts written during TOS' run were written by writers who had served a stint in the military in World War II, they wrote the characters and the characters reactions using a lot of that personal experience. Even with his rewrites during the run of the series he didn't really go out of his way to write out the more militaristic aspects, including the various military rank aspects; and those very aspects were used as dramatic plot points in episodes like The Doomsday Machine or Obsession.
Roddenberry was fairly consistent in his opinions re Starfleet throughout. Right out of the hate he nixed military conventions like coming to attention and saluting, and you’ll notice no one ever “captain on the bridge”s on any show he had final say on. It’s important to remember he was a cop after being and airline pilot folllowing his Army Air Corps experience, and the para/quasi military structures of those, plus how astronauts functioned in the heat of the space race all doubtlessly influenced his thinking.
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Very similar. The enlisted navy rates were overhauled and expanded in 1948 (Seabee rates added for instance), the abbreviation format was changed as was the insignia below petty officer. E-8 and E-9 were added in 1959. Warrant officers were expanded from two grades to four in 1955. But everything in the '60s would have been basically recognizable to someone from the '40s.
As far a "yeoman third class" goes, that's been a rating from 1896 straight through to today.
I have wondered if Masters is there to oversee and engine upgrade, and the room in which she works is not permanently going to be used for that purpose, possibly, but instead all the new equipment is there until it can be integrated into the ship as new equipment. She would be wearing a blue-shirt as a scientist and as literal staff officer, not being able to take command of the ship (also perhaps why she has no stripe), but leading the engineering team working with the new equipment. That would also explain why Scotty is not there at that time. The next episode in stardate order is "Tomorrow is Yesterday, just before which, they are said to have gotten a computer overhaul.
Regarding rank, I wonder if "crewman" was ever meant to be taken as a rank. In a way, could not anyone in the crew be a "crewman"? In the same frame of mind, relating this to Roddenberry's time as a police officer, since police are called "officers," even if they have rank that would be enlisted in, say the Army like "corporal," could not Starfleet be like this? Regardless of rank anyone in the crew is a "Starfleet Officer," or could also be a "crewman."
Taking a step outside of the TOS thinking, Voyager had the issue of the Maquis to deal with. Unless given a position of authority, they would have no provisional rank, and probably would not want to be called "officers" so "crewman" seems like the most non-confronational term to use
Maybe everyone on Voyager could be wearing a blue shirt if they were serving on another ship, but only staff officers wear blue on Voyager to avoid confusion?! Voyager also seems to support the idea that blue is for staff officers, since there are very few of them, especially for a science ship, and I don't think any blue shirt ever took command, and even the Doctor changer his shirt color to take command.Spock, TMP Kirk, Will Decker, and Bart Krasnovsky (plus Roubou and George Kirk, if you want to count that part of that movie) would all be some kind of exception in that case.
I'd say it was "usually" executed, but individual writers occasionally lapsed into more familiar modes. One could watch, say, 90+ of the episodes of TOS and TAS and never see a crewman or reference to one!
Compare that to, say, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, which explicitly had officers and ratings every episode.
That's kind of brilliant!
Reasonable.
Funny how he TALKED a lot about what he believed Starfleet was, yet in his rewrites of various scripts - didn't rewrite them to get rid of or lessen the VERY military aspects of the Federation in the stories; or the military discipline shown time and time again.
Fans NOTICED how military TOS was. It wasn't something they just came up with out of the blue. As you know GR TALKED AS LOT about how he viewed Star Trek (and a lot of BS stories too about NBC, etc. - which you've made a habit of debunking from the written records).
So yeah, GR TALKED A LOT about how he viewed Star Trek - but many times (and probably more often than not); the actions he took at the typewriter and the subsequent episodes produced didn't mirror that belief/philosophy.
I'd say it was "usually" executed, but individual writers occasionally lapsed into more familiar modes. One could watch, say, 90+ of the episodes of TOS and TAS and never see a crewman or reference to one!
Compare that to, say, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, which explicitly had officers and ratings every episode.
Was TOS explicitly all officers in every episode?
Yes. I have read that in the 1850s the commanding general Winfield Scott and Secretary of War Jefferson Davis got into a disagreement over Scott's brevet rank, which became a court case.
And here is a link to a quite long online book from 1877 about brevets in the British and US armies:
https://archive.org/details/historyandlegal00frygoog
Then Spock would not refer to "officers" and "crew" separately in "The Immunity Syndrome."
I'd say it was "usually" executed, but individual writers occasionally lapsed into more familiar modes. One could watch, say, 90+ of the episodes of TOS and TAS and never see a crewman or reference to one!
If that concept had been executed, there would have been explicit instructions in the writer's guide for what titles to use, and story editors would have caught the exceptions we have been discussing.
As it is, because there were no costuming distinctions there's no way to know if someone was an ensign like Chekov or a lower grade like Lawton.
But they do have costume differences, so it's not really comparable.
The Writer's Guide isn't that big. I've quoted the only passage that discusses the issue.
Nope. Just implicitly all-officers in most episodes, and explicitly (more-or-less) in the Writer's Guide and TMOST.
Again, it's good to distinguish what we're talking about -- it seems there are "officers" and "crew", but no "officers" and "enlisted". Or at least that was the goal.
I think Spock was called a "Vulcanian" in more episodes than we saw people with "ratings".
The term "crewman" was used for Lt. Miraine in "Lights of Zetar" so it seems that it doesn't distinguish between officer and enlisted. However, "Technicians" and "Yeomans" appear to be not officers since they have been referred to "Technician First Class" and "Yeoman Third Class". So, explicitly, there are crewman that are not officers in TOS. Not seeing why there is a need to make everyone in TOS officers.
(And Spock can be a "Vulcanian" and a "Vulcan".
)
He didn't touch every script. Once Coon came aboard the rewrites were largely his job. People forget or don't realize that Roddenberry's deal at Desilu was to develop pilots as potential series, and so he often had his fingers in more than one pie. He was super hands on in the first half of the first season to the point that John DF Black left because Roddenberry was too hands-on with the scripts. Once they got the "writing machine" of uppers-fueled Gene Coon onboard he got less so.
@Harvey and I have read a lot of the writers memos and while, sure, Gene changed his mind about or fine tuned some aspects of his outlook, it's the sum that matters. As he wrote to Nick Meyer in 1981:
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That's right. It happened all of twice. But it did happen. The rarity suggests it's not common or perhaps a practice that's phasing out. Since all of the instances happen in the first season (save for Watkins, possibly), maybe there were ratings for, as you say, Technicians and Yeomans, but at the time of the first season, they were being phased out in favor of the more egalitarian "all officers" Starfleet.
Certainly, that first season seems to be a time of change -- it's not till halfway through the first season that we hear the terms Starfleet or Federation; suddenly they're the only ones used. Before that, it's things like Earth and UESPA (though even by Errand of Mercy, the Federation has just one homeworld, with the implication that it's Earth).
(And Spock can be a "Vulcanian" and a "Vulcan".
But never in the same episode, and once the change happens, they don't go back. It happens around the time Spock's planet's name changes from Vulcanis to Vulcan.
It's difficult to pinpoint the exact time of the shift because Spock will use the term Vulcan, but it's not clear if he's referring to the planet or using the planet as an adjective.
I once clashed (politely) with a copyeditor over the color of Masters' uniform. I described it as blue, as seen on TV, but the copyeditor, not unreasonably, changed it to red because she was in Engineering. After some reflection, I changed it back to blue because that was what was onscreen.
But I concede that this was definitely a judgment call.
But I concede that this was definitely a judgment call.
Technicians on the Enterprise were mentioned in dialogue as late as "Wink of an Eye" so it sounds more like the stories shifted to focus more on the officers of the Enterprise instead of a change in personnel on the Enterprise to all officers.
I'm rather okay that the Enterprise's authority is under UESPA within Starfleet
The "home planet" of the Federation however was never identified in "Errand of Mercy" but having a single planet to govern from sounds pretty logical though. However none of these two data points change what was introduced earlier and only add more information to fill in the blanks, IMHO.Vulcans being called Vulcanians occurred in "Court Martial", "A Taste of Armageddon", "This Side of Paradise", "Errand of Mercy" and "Mudd's Women". And in "This Side of Paradise" both Vulcanian and Vulcan are used in the same episode.
Whether they go back or not doesn't matter so much since it could be again a simple matter of the stories focusing on people that prefer to say it one way or another.
Another example is that the Enterprise's phasers only fired in stun mode once in "A Piece of the Action". Does that mean ship phasers are incapable of the stun setting all the other times in TOS? No, just that the setting was only needed in that particular story and if another situation came up it could be used. YMMV
Technicians as a profession, not a rank.
I'm rather okay that the Enterprise's authority is under UESPA within Starfleet
That's one interpretation, sure. There are many. There's no right answer, but lots of fun coming up with ideas!
Good catch. Interestingly, it comes before Errand of Mercy.
That strikes me as less likely than the showrunners deciding "Vulcan" sounded better. Of course, that's the Doylian explanation. Holmesian, it seems the difference is chronological, not regional. So in-universe, we're watching the language change over time.
Another example is that the Enterprise's phasers only fired in stun mode once in "A Piece of the Action". Does that mean ship phasers are incapable of the stun setting all the other times in TOS? No, just that the setting was only needed in that particular story and if another situation came up it could be used. YMMV
That actually is a failing of the show, where it introduces a technology and then forgets it exists. You're left scratching your head as to why that solution isn't used.
I remember Voyager being the dumbest premise for a show -- if you get warped 75 travel years away, you just put everyone in the transporter matrix, point the ship at home; when you get there, you take everyone out of transporter stasis, whip around the nearest star to go back 75 years, and presto. (I guess fuel could be an issue -- but then you could just point the ship,get to relativistic speeds,and coast for 20,000 years...THEN use time travel).
So yeah. The ship's phasers should have a global stun setting after APOTA. Do they? Your guess is as good as mine.
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Eh, no.
From "This Side of Paradise" [http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/25.htm]:
ELIAS: You've known the Vulcanian?
LEILA: On Earth, six years ago.
ELIAS: Did you love him?
[...]
SPOCK: My mother was a teacher. My father an ambassador.
KIRK: Your father was a computer, like his son. An ambassador from a planet of traitors. A Vulcan never lived who had an ounce of integrity.
SPOCK: Captain, please don't
LEILA: On Earth, six years ago.
ELIAS: Did you love him?
[...]
SPOCK: My mother was a teacher. My father an ambassador.
KIRK: Your father was a computer, like his son. An ambassador from a planet of traitors. A Vulcan never lived who had an ounce of integrity.
SPOCK: Captain, please don't
From "Errand of Mercy" [http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/27.htm]:
KOR: The stupid, idiotic smile everyone else seems to be wearing. A Vulcan. Do you also have a tongue?
SPOCK: I am Spock, a dealer in kevas and trillium.
[...]
KLINGON: He is what he claims to be, Commander, a Vulcanian merchant named Spock. His main concern seems to be how he would carry out his business under our occupation.
KOR: Nothing else?
KLINGON: The usual. A certain amount of apprehension regarding us. The mind is remarkably disciplined.
SPOCK: I am Spock, a dealer in kevas and trillium.
[...]
KLINGON: He is what he claims to be, Commander, a Vulcanian merchant named Spock. His main concern seems to be how he would carry out his business under our occupation.
KOR: Nothing else?
KLINGON: The usual. A certain amount of apprehension regarding us. The mind is remarkably disciplined.
Also, "Errand of Mercy."
Huh! I missed that one, good catch.
I wonder why the inconsistency? Is it both ways in the script or did actor ad lib ultimately lead to the name change?
In TOS it appears that Technicians as a profession have ranks that are not officer ranks and are mentioned separately from individual officers. So if you're a technician you probably have a Technician rank.
From "Space Seed"
Commendations recommended for Lieutenant Uhura, Technicians First Class Thule and Harrison, Lieutenant Spinelli and, of course, Mister Spock.
That's one interpretation, sure. There are many. There's no right answer, but lots of fun coming up with ideas!
Yep, that's why we're here
Or in-universe some characters prefer to say it one way over the other. Who knows?
That actually is a failing of the show, where it introduces a technology and then forgets it exists. You're left scratching your head as to why that solution isn't used.
So yeah. The ship's phasers should have a global stun setting after APOTA. Do they? Your guess is as good as mine.
Oh that wasn't a failing I was pointing out about the TOS Phasers. Only that the opportunities for stun from orbit isn't that common and that they can stun from orbit (at least in TOS)
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