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What are your controversial Star Trek opinions?

I can't see how the Burn could have happened in the MU. It relied upon too many coincidences to occur (someone with the right psi-sensitivity had to be on the dilithium planet at exactly the right time, and have severe emotional trauma).

Everything that's ever happened in the MU relied on too many coincidences to occur. That's fundamental to the shtick.

The split between Federation and Terran Empire happened before Humans even met Vulcans, yet hundreds of years later the Enterprise still exists, looks exactly the same, has the exact same crew and *Dr. McCoy made the same accidental stain on a medbay table a week or so before the incident in both universes*.
 
Everything that's ever happened in the MU relied on too many coincidences to occur. That's fundamental to the shtick.
The idea that backward, just survived a nuclear World War humans overcome Vulcans with a slingshot and arrows and conquered the universe where there are species that are stronger physically, more advanced and are telepathic is a crazy concept anyway. Leave your suspension of disbelief at the door
 
Yes, when we (not Pic1 fans) in the family saw trailers for 2 we were rnthused that this looked like crazy, stupid fun. I’d rather have this so far than the dour, “important” convoluted hot mess that was S1. Ymmv and prob does.
 
The idea that backward, just survived a nuclear World War humans overcome Vulcans with a slingshot and arrows and conquered the universe where there are species that are stronger physically, more advanced and are telepathic is a crazy concept anyway. Leave your suspension of disbelief at the door

I fully agree. But at the same time, I kind of love the idea of the Mirror Universe. As some kind of quantum-entangled copy universe, where vastly different actions lead to a similar, but evil outcomes :rommie:

Not in a "season-long-arc"-way, but in a "every series should have one(!!) MU-episode/two-parter"-way.

And that it basically "corrects" itself - in our universe, Vulcans didn't share technology with Archer but came as friends, in their universe they might have come as conquerers, and humans learned an exactly similar amount of technology from them. And once stuff goes off the rails (Earth losing the war against the allies), stuff happens (future technology from our universe gets captured) that brings it back on course.

Schlocky stuff. But Trek isn't exactly hard-SF. And I very much prefer such "Twilight Zone"-shit immensely more than "Federation/Klingon war no. xx".
 
I fully agree. But at the same time, I kind of love the idea of the Mirror Universe. As some kind of quantum-entangled copy universe, where vastly different actions lead to a similar, but evil outcomes :rommie:

To quote myself.

The Mirror Universe at first appears to be an Alternate universe.

The people and organizations of a Mirror Universe appear to undergo a moral inversion. People who are good become evil, people who are evil become good. The United Federation of Planets is often Mirrored as the evil Terran Empire.

However, in a Mirror Universe event, people, organizations and objects are mirrored in a fashion that doesn't make sense or follow accepted continuity and divergence theories. A ship undergoing a Mirror Universe encounter will find that it's mirror counter part has analogs to all of its crew people (At least at first). Objects, being morally neutral will often be duplicated much more directly. A Mirror Universe starship will duplicate its normal universe counterpart in great detail, despite the fact that the evil mirror universe Empire has no reason to put a bowling alley on a constitution class starship. Mirror Universe phasers will be technically identical to normal universe phasers, including a stun setting that would seem out of character for an evil empire.

Mirrored people will be earnestly unpleasant, or if antagonistic, surprisingly pleasant, and remember unlikely backgrounds as clearly and thoroughly as their normal universe counter part remembers his own history. Some elements however do not change for inexplicable reasons that seem to have more to do with current circumstances. The Halkan Council for example (Mirror, Mirror) was as adamantly peaceful in the Mirror universe as in the prime universe.

The phenomenon raises difficult moral, scientific and especially philosophical questions. The effect seems to be metaphorically similar to the virtual particle phenomenon in quantum physics. The mirrored starship and crew people do not represent an incursion from a stable alternate universe, but a virtual mirror universe. The circumstances "mirrored" at those currently in force, not a progression from events as they would naturally flow. The people of the mirror universe are always concurrent, even if the events of a previous mirror event would have changed things utterly, or should have.

Mirrored ships and crews most often disappear. Very often this is in the context of being "Sent home" to their "Home Universe". Ships and individuals visiting a "mirror universe" will find attempts to return home almost always succeed. This is due to the fact that the energies must balance.

In extreme cases, mirrored people and objects may become stable, "stealing" prerequisite energy from other sources. The energy required is enormous, usually only stellar phenomena throw around that kind of energy. Ion storms, stars and planets undergoing dramatically catastrophic events have generated stable mirror phenomenon.

This raises difficult philosophical questions. In effect the universe may generate a mirror John Smith. Mirror-John will usually be physically identical to Normal John Smith, but will recall a personal history that is a mirror image of Normal John's. Loved ones will become enemies, enemies will become family and friends. Now, in the rare case that Mirror-John becomes stable, what is his relationship to Normal-John? Do his memories amount to a strange stellar phenomenon, or is he remembering a real place? Although Mirror-John Smith's origins are shrouded in doubt, his current existence is real. Does Mirror John Smith share Normal John Smith's citizenship? Is Mirror-John responsible for crimes that he committed in his possible home dimension? Mirrored people often appear to be sociopathic, or at least extremely ruthless. They have the potential to commit horrible crimes. Some have attempted a cultural defense, saying that criminal acts were expected and encouraged in their home culture and therefore, a mirrored person cannot be expected to make a competent assessment of right and wrong. No such defense has succeeded, yet.

It is plain that people created from this phenomenon, those who become permanent, face a long period of adjustment and counseling to become equipped to survive in modern society. Many such people commit violent crimes and wind up imprisoned for long terms. Federation Law is deeply agnostic on the status of such people. Most who encounter stabled mirrored forms simply ignore the strange origin and treat the duplicates as citizens of the Federation who coincidentally bear precise resemblance to other people. Whether John Smith considers Mirror John Smith to be a relative, or pursues any subsequent relationship with him is currently left up to Normal John Smith and Mirror John Smith to work out for themselves.

Other variations, gender reversal, role reversals or perhaps stranger mirror phenomenon are not excluded by the current understanding of the phenomenon, but have not been recorded, yet.

The existence of this phenomenon also calls into question the entire concept of alternate universes. Do they exist or are they temporary turbulence in time and space? This question has led to fisticuffs among temporal physicists.

Meta
Garry Stahl invented this mechanism to explain the Mirror Universe. It explains why the different Mirror Universe stories are not consistent with each other, as well as explaining the internal inconsistencies in the Mirror Universe concept itself.

The idea allows for interesting story potential and conflicts.
 
To quote myself.

The Mirror Universe at first appears to be an Alternate universe.

The people and organizations of a Mirror Universe appear to undergo a moral inversion. People who are good become evil, people who are evil become good. The United Federation of Planets is often Mirrored as the evil Terran Empire.

However, in a Mirror Universe event, people, organizations and objects are mirrored in a fashion that doesn't make sense or follow accepted continuity and divergence theories. A ship undergoing a Mirror Universe encounter will find that it's mirror counter part has analogs to all of its crew people (At least at first). Objects, being morally neutral will often be duplicated much more directly. A Mirror Universe starship will duplicate its normal universe counterpart in great detail, despite the fact that the evil mirror universe Empire has no reason to put a bowling alley on a constitution class starship. Mirror Universe phasers will be technically identical to normal universe phasers, including a stun setting that would seem out of character for an evil empire.

Mirrored people will be earnestly unpleasant, or if antagonistic, surprisingly pleasant, and remember unlikely backgrounds as clearly and thoroughly as their normal universe counter part remembers his own history. Some elements however do not change for inexplicable reasons that seem to have more to do with current circumstances. The Halkan Council for example (Mirror, Mirror) was as adamantly peaceful in the Mirror universe as in the prime universe.

The phenomenon raises difficult moral, scientific and especially philosophical questions. The effect seems to be metaphorically similar to the virtual particle phenomenon in quantum physics. The mirrored starship and crew people do not represent an incursion from a stable alternate universe, but a virtual mirror universe. The circumstances "mirrored" at those currently in force, not a progression from events as they would naturally flow. The people of the mirror universe are always concurrent, even if the events of a previous mirror event would have changed things utterly, or should have.

Mirrored ships and crews most often disappear. Very often this is in the context of being "Sent home" to their "Home Universe". Ships and individuals visiting a "mirror universe" will find attempts to return home almost always succeed. This is due to the fact that the energies must balance.

In extreme cases, mirrored people and objects may become stable, "stealing" prerequisite energy from other sources. The energy required is enormous, usually only stellar phenomena throw around that kind of energy. Ion storms, stars and planets undergoing dramatically catastrophic events have generated stable mirror phenomenon.

This raises difficult philosophical questions. In effect the universe may generate a mirror John Smith. Mirror-John will usually be physically identical to Normal John Smith, but will recall a personal history that is a mirror image of Normal John's. Loved ones will become enemies, enemies will become family and friends. Now, in the rare case that Mirror-John becomes stable, what is his relationship to Normal-John? Do his memories amount to a strange stellar phenomenon, or is he remembering a real place? Although Mirror-John Smith's origins are shrouded in doubt, his current existence is real. Does Mirror John Smith share Normal John Smith's citizenship? Is Mirror-John responsible for crimes that he committed in his possible home dimension? Mirrored people often appear to be sociopathic, or at least extremely ruthless. They have the potential to commit horrible crimes. Some have attempted a cultural defense, saying that criminal acts were expected and encouraged in their home culture and therefore, a mirrored person cannot be expected to make a competent assessment of right and wrong. No such defense has succeeded, yet.

It is plain that people created from this phenomenon, those who become permanent, face a long period of adjustment and counseling to become equipped to survive in modern society. Many such people commit violent crimes and wind up imprisoned for long terms. Federation Law is deeply agnostic on the status of such people. Most who encounter stabled mirrored forms simply ignore the strange origin and treat the duplicates as citizens of the Federation who coincidentally bear precise resemblance to other people. Whether John Smith considers Mirror John Smith to be a relative, or pursues any subsequent relationship with him is currently left up to Normal John Smith and Mirror John Smith to work out for themselves.

Other variations, gender reversal, role reversals or perhaps stranger mirror phenomenon are not excluded by the current understanding of the phenomenon, but have not been recorded, yet.

The existence of this phenomenon also calls into question the entire concept of alternate universes. Do they exist or are they temporary turbulence in time and space? This question has led to fisticuffs among temporal physicists.

Meta
Garry Stahl invented this mechanism to explain the Mirror Universe. It explains why the different Mirror Universe stories are not consistent with each other, as well as explaining the internal inconsistencies in the Mirror Universe concept itself.

The idea allows for interesting story potential and conflicts.

Not a bad theory (long wall of text though).

But my personal opinion is a bit different: I see the "Mirror Universe" as a complete universe on it's own, with it's own history and everything, that's just more closely connected to ours (via "quantum" stuff), so that different actions lead to similar results.

Basically, in "normal" parallel universes the "Butterfly effect" is in full force - small changes lead to much larger diversions down the line. But two universes (prime & mirror) are much closer connected within the multiverse & more similar to each other than they should be by pure change.

(God that sounds comic-book-y :D)
 
Not a bad theory (long wall of text though).

Though my personal opinion is a bit different: I see the "Mirror Universe" as a complete universe on it's own, with it's own history and everything, that's just more closely connected to ours (via "quantum" stuff), so that different actions lead to similar results.

Basically, in "normal" parallel universes the "Butterfly effect" is in full force - small changes lead to much larger diversions down the line. But two universes (prime & mirror) within the multiverse are much closer connected & more similar to each other than they should be by pure change.

(God that sounds comic-book-y :D)
I always liked the idea, before I knew of quantum entanglement, that there was a connection, but over time increased divergences happened, kind of like entropy.
 
I always liked the idea, before I knew of quantum entanglement, that there was a connection, but over time increased divergences happened, kind of like entropy.

That's basically how DS9 treated the grand politics (subjugated humans being a very different situation than the Terran EMprie/Federaion mirror situation of ENT/TOS).

But I like the idea of some invisible force always pushing them back closer together:
It's the only reasonable explanation to use the same actors in both universes!

So even with very divergent events in history (first contact, human/alien war , Empress Georgiou & her Multiverse ship) - somehow other events occur that makes them line up later on again (e.g. "prime" USS Defiant pushing Terrans up to speed).
 
The one thing I actually liked about Enterprise was the costuming, alien-make up and the depiction of other planets...

...with one exception: Andoria.
I mean I owuld be alright with the Andorians inhabiting a very cold planet and/or a planet that currently goes through an ice age, but ENT showed Andoria as a planet literally covered in thick plates of ice with cities inside glaciers and such. That was exorbitantly stupid, imo.

Like, how does multi-cellular life even survive in an environment like that? How do plants survive. And without plants how do you get a working biosphere going (or keep it from collapsing)?
 
The one thing I actually liked about Enterprise was the costuming, alien-make up and the depiction of other planets...

...with one exception: Andoria.
I mean I owuld be alright with the Andorians inhabiting a very cold planet and/or a planet that currently goes through an ice age, but ENT showed Andoria as a planet literally covered in thick plates of ice with cities inside glaciers and such. That was exorbitantly stupid, imo.

Like, how does multi-cellular life even survive in an environment like that? How do plants survive. And without plants how do you get a working biosphere going (or keep it from collapsing)?

Biological antifreeze? It exists on Earth after all.
 
My guess is the Andorians conquered those problems with thermal technology early in their civilization. And there might be areas of Andoria that are less glacial and cold much as there are times when the skies on Vulcan aren't copper or salmon in hue or when it's clear that trees grow on Tatooine in the Star Wars universe even if we don't see them doing it.
 
The one thing I actually liked about Enterprise was the costuming, alien-make up and the depiction of other planets...

...with one exception: Andoria.
I mean I owuld be alright with the Andorians inhabiting a very cold planet and/or a planet that currently goes through an ice age, but ENT showed Andoria as a planet literally covered in thick plates of ice with cities inside glaciers and such. That was exorbitantly stupid, imo.

Like, how does multi-cellular life even survive in an environment like that? How do plants survive. And without plants how do you get a working biosphere going (or keep it from collapsing)?
In case you’re not aware, there is an RPG sourcebook called Among the Clans (1999) which IIRC has answers to all those questions. This sourcebook was the first and last sourcebook about Andorians, (barely) predating ENT, and the ENT production team mined it freely.
 
In case you’re not aware, there is an RPG sourcebook called Among the Clans (1999) which IIRC has answers to all those questions. This sourcebook was the first and last sourcebook about Andorians, (barely) predating ENT, and the ENT production team mined it freely.


I have it, it does predate Enterprise and does NOT have the whole planet covered in glaciers.
 
In the novels at the very least, there are equatorial parts of Andoria with cities, forests and such.

And a bonkers sub plot about them trying to warm up their planet. No wonder they almost went extinct.
 
Like, how does multi-cellular life even survive in an environment like that? How do plants survive. And without plants how do you get a working biosphere going (or keep it from collapsing)?

It orbits a gas giant, perhaps tidal forces cause geological activity and make the oceans warmer, allowing the underwater biosphere to do all the heavy lifting.
 
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