How did Commodore Stocker get his rank?

[Neopeius]

Well, given that confusing dialogue where poor Joey implies that Spock's his boss (the "you don't rank me and you don't have pointed ears" line to Sulu) as well as the fact that he went with Spock to pick up a scientific party and that Spock seemed to know him very well, I always figured he was a scientist of some sort.

Your "non-greasy" jobs observation hits closer to the mark for me now that you've explained further, but Rand and even Uhura arguably had those sorts of jobs, too, and wore red. Janice actually almost perfectly fits what you described. So I'll agree to disagree with your group's analysis. I think if I had watched in production or airdate order originally (I didn't; I don' t remember for sure, but I'm *almost* positive that I first saw S3 episodes as a kid), I would have concluded that blueshirts were the scientists and the redshirts were the catchall group. By S3, that was more obvious.

For sure. We were having the discussion late last year (so, the analog of late '66) and stuff wasn't set in stone. Indeed, Uhura, had worn gold three times, which suggested communications was originally "line". Admittedly, security and yeomans seemed odd as red, but the engineers clearly weren't "staff" so... (also, we just got Marla McGivers in red, which makes no damned sense since last I heard, anthropology was a science!)

 

[BK613]

@Neopeius McGivers is just a historian; episode never mentions the word anthropology or anthropologist. That was Lieutenant Carolyn Palamas in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Who was in blue.

Of course, it is possible that some minimal-workload specialists like "historian" and "anthropologist" are assigned to departments for other reasons than their specialties.

 

[Nerys Myk]

For sure. We were having the discussion late last year (so, the analog of late '66) and stuff wasn't set in stone. Indeed, Uhura, had worn gold three times, which suggested communications was originally "line". Admittedly, security and yeomans seemed odd as red, but the engineers clearly weren't "staff" so... (also, we just got Marla McGivers in red, which makes no damned sense since last I heard, anthropology was a science!)

Was she an anthropologist? Kirk just calls her a "historian".

 

[BK613]

Was she an anthropologist? Kirk just calls her a "historian".

She called herself a historian during her dressing down in sickbay.

 

[Henoch]

KIRK: ...Oh, I'll need somebody familiar with the late 20th-Century Earth. Here's a chance for that historian to do something for a change.

At this point, Kirk was only aware that the ship they plan to investigate was the Botany Bay from 1996. McGivers wore red indicating that she was in Engineering. Perhaps she was a historian of engineering/technology, able to use/operate/fix older level technologies that they may encounter on stranger new worlds or find in more primitive tech space ships. She was the first person to realize that the ship was a sleeper ship, for example, showing her knowledge of old earth technology.

 

[BK613]

At this point, Kirk was only aware that the ship they plan to investigate was the Botany Bay from 1996. McGivers wore red indicating that she was in Engineering. Perhaps she was a historian of engineering/technology, able to use/operate/fix older level technologies that they may encounter on stranger new worlds or find in more primitive tech space ships. She was the first person to realize that the ship was a sleeper ship, for example, showing her knowledge of old earth technology.

Not a bad idea but I would think that if that were the case, she would have been on the Botany Bay the rest of the episode actually examining tech that she's only seen old photographs of.

 

[E-DUB]

Married an Admiral's daughter?

 

[Commishsleer]

While I agree that the uniform colours don't make sense - maybe people who do work in more than one department get to choose which colour they wear or maybe its administrative - like you came on the Enterprise as an engineer but even though you work in Science you still come in under Engineering's budget and their allocation of red uniforms.

I'm thinking that Sisko was never a Captain of a "Starship" and could have easily made Commodore.

 

[Sir Rhosis]

Was she an anthropologist? Kirk just calls her a "historian".

In the script for "Space Seed," she is referred to as a "controls systems specialist." http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/spaceseed.htm

Sir Rhosis

 

[mb22]

For sure. We were having the discussion late last year (so, the analog of late '66) and stuff wasn't set in stone. Indeed, Uhura, had worn gold three times, which suggested communications was originally "line".

Only two episodes I think ("Corbomite Maneuver" and "Mudd's Women").

 

[BillJ]

It‘s called the Peter principle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle

We really don't know that. He could be a brilliant administrator that got caught up in a very bad situation that he simply wasn't prepared for.

 

[Nerys Myk]

In the script for "Space Seed," she is referred to as a "controls systems specialist." http://www.orionpressfanzines.com/articles/spaceseed.htm

Sir Rhosis

Interesting how one dropped line or scene can change things.

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Pinafore may be (in Gilbert's own words) "infernal nonsense," but I'm still convinced that the only ship Stocker ever commanded was a junior partnerSHIP.

 

[Kor]

All this vaguely reminds of some older SF story about how during some big disaster like an alien invasion of Earth, the one who ended up in charge of all the defense was an administrator from the accounting department who had ended up in a position of authority just because he had stayed in the job for so many years. The only way he could understand anything was in terms of budget and how much money it would cost them. It was an, um, interesting way of running things.

Kor

 

[dupersuper]

I'm thinking that Sisko was never a Captain of a "Starship" and could have easily made Commodore.

You wouldn't consider him the captain of the Defiant?

 

[Kor]

You wouldn't consider him the captain of the Defiant?

I would say it was more of an auxiliary function to his primary assignment. But even before that, Sisko had plenty of starship experience before he was assigned to DS9. He had been first officer on the Saratoga. And commanding DS9 was much different than, say, a supply/refueling base where he would have been signing off on procurement orders all day.

Kor

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

Watching deadly years for the first time in ages, I'm wondering how with just none or limited command experience would Stocker have become a Commodore?

Maybe he had video of Admiral Nogura in that cheap motel on Donald Duckus IV.

 

[plynch]

I didn’t read the article on Peter Principal, but part of the idea is that one is good at one’s job, hey, gets a promotion to what one is not good at, and is stuck there.

And ppl getting fired doesn’t seem to happen much, in my experience.

In education, we see ppl who are good teachers become administrators who aren’t good. Unfortunately there are shortages, so they can become superintendents (and actually maybe do less harm).

 

[publiusr]

I never liked how NuBSG threw an engineer under the bus in the second-in-command in over his head trope. Scotty seemed pretty competent.

 

[Farscape One]

Sulu, who has been left in command of the Enterprise multiple times, including when Kirk and Spock were on Organia, would have been a logical choice to take command, at least until the situation was resolved.

Regarding Uhura's uniform, Communications department is likely seen as an extension of Engineering in that it is technical and vital to the function of the ship. It may have started as a Command division before being assigned as part of Engineering.