I want a copy of The Many and the One
Spoilers Star Trek: Picard 2x01 - "The Star Gazer"
- Thread starter Commander Richard
- Start date
It's more the handwavy nature of it. Worf theoretically gets in trouble, even if it amounts to nothing because of main character plot armor. And sure, the same applies to Juranti too, but it's kind of like... as someone watching, I guess it's meant to be a bit of a joke now?
Maybe it'll come up again and inform her character as a past trauma, but they way they presented it makes it feel like she just made a "whoopsiedaisy".
I know Trek is all about ignoring continuity, but also this is a different era of TV and even then, I know I wasn't the only one who thought her murder was pretty unforgivable in the context that they presented it on the show.
Combining these since my answer is the same, but I guess it's a question of "what is human" I suppose. Juranti jokes that Picard is "positronic" now, so all his actions are based on the programming of the body's positronic brain. Is that still Picard, or a very close programmatic reproduction of Picard? Is there a difference?
This is like the question of whether transporters murder you every time you use one, but taken to the next level, because the idea of a singular consciousness is still kind of amorphous in the realm of Star Trek. Clearly you can transfer "minds" through techniques like the Vulcan mind meld, so the idea of a "soul" is something tangible that you can scientifically manipulate. If the mind/soul is just another "organ" you can transplant, then maybe it just doesn't matter if it's placed in Doctor McKoy or an Android body.
But also I'm not sure if the show is even going to go there. lol
Wow, an episode where things actually happen! After this season of Disco I'd forgotten what that was like.
It is unforgivable...in the real world.
In Star Trek, temporary insanity due to alien influence is standard.
The show doesn't need to go there because the question is already answered. Kirk's soul could be moved, Chakotay's could be moved. This is not new to Star Trek.
Star Trek is not pew-pew. Not real Star Trek!
Hell, Picard was coopted by Borg nanotechnology and killed at least 11,000 Starfleet personnel in one battle and Starfleet understood he was under influences outside his control. If Picard can rack up a death toll that high then Jurati being legally absolved of killing Bruce Maddox isn't remotely out of the ordinary.
Pretty great! Fantastic new credits, I was so amped from that opening.
Though I do really struggle with Picard/Laris. In the show's judgment, it seems so obvious that Picard should pursue this relationship, and the fact that he's not prompts so much soul-searching about what's wrong with him.
But... is it really that crazy to pass on dating your much younger employee? Who's been happily married to someone else every time we've seen her? I just don't feel any romantic/sexual chemistry between them. If anything, in season one I thought their vibe was more parent/child! The younger woman caring for the older man for whom she holds a strong sense of duty, reverence... nothing that really feeds into a romantic partnership of equals.
I was so psyched when I saw Orla Brady billed among the regulars, then bummed when I saw how she was being used.
Otherwise, fantastic!
I thought this as well. Last season, Seven was scripted as such a generic sci-fi badass. Her old character voice just wasn't there anymore. This episode, I could see so much more of the character we knew, within last seasons reboot idea.
I think it also helped that this episode cast her in a more classicly Seven situation -- demanding a more extreme course of action and telling everyone else they're being foolishly naive.
Count me among those impressed with the Jurati writing in the premiere. I thought there was NO WAY OUT of the shambles they left her in last season.
A time jump and a proper trial help smooth things over, but I thought the most important fix was how self-loathing her "joking" at the bar felt. The most off-putting thing about Agnes in season one was that she exhibited almost no remorse -- but she did have a lot of concern about her own legal culpability. It was so gross that she wasn't more horrified by her own actions.
This seemed to put all of season 1 Agnes in the "still temporarily insane" box, which is as good a fix as any. Agnes in this ep also seemed a lot more integrated -- the cheery mess, bubbly and abrasive, brilliant but overbearing. Season 1 made her confusing so we could have a "twist", front-loading her sweet side and hiding all her rough edges till they could be shocking reveals. It was nice to see Alison Pill get to just play ALL the character here.
I'm worried I'm putting too much credit in one episodes writing, but after the season 1 finale I truly never wanted to lay eyes on Agnes Jurati again. But in THIS episode, when she dropped into that chair next to Rios as they warped off to the anomaly, I was on board for a full spin-off of their fucked-up-Riker-Troi banter.
Also, fun cameo from the Deltans! That's a race I always thought should pop up more.
Though I do really struggle with Picard/Laris. In the show's judgment, it seems so obvious that Picard should pursue this relationship, and the fact that he's not prompts so much soul-searching about what's wrong with him.
But... is it really that crazy to pass on dating your much younger employee? Who's been happily married to someone else every time we've seen her? I just don't feel any romantic/sexual chemistry between them. If anything, in season one I thought their vibe was more parent/child! The younger woman caring for the older man for whom she holds a strong sense of duty, reverence... nothing that really feeds into a romantic partnership of equals.
I was so psyched when I saw Orla Brady billed among the regulars, then bummed when I saw how she was being used.
Otherwise, fantastic!
I thought this as well. Last season, Seven was scripted as such a generic sci-fi badass. Her old character voice just wasn't there anymore. This episode, I could see so much more of the character we knew, within last seasons reboot idea.
I think it also helped that this episode cast her in a more classicly Seven situation -- demanding a more extreme course of action and telling everyone else they're being foolishly naive.
Count me among those impressed with the Jurati writing in the premiere. I thought there was NO WAY OUT of the shambles they left her in last season.
A time jump and a proper trial help smooth things over, but I thought the most important fix was how self-loathing her "joking" at the bar felt. The most off-putting thing about Agnes in season one was that she exhibited almost no remorse -- but she did have a lot of concern about her own legal culpability. It was so gross that she wasn't more horrified by her own actions.
This seemed to put all of season 1 Agnes in the "still temporarily insane" box, which is as good a fix as any. Agnes in this ep also seemed a lot more integrated -- the cheery mess, bubbly and abrasive, brilliant but overbearing. Season 1 made her confusing so we could have a "twist", front-loading her sweet side and hiding all her rough edges till they could be shocking reveals. It was nice to see Alison Pill get to just play ALL the character here.
I'm worried I'm putting too much credit in one episodes writing, but after the season 1 finale I truly never wanted to lay eyes on Agnes Jurati again. But in THIS episode, when she dropped into that chair next to Rios as they warped off to the anomaly, I was on board for a full spin-off of their fucked-up-Riker-Troi banter.
Also, fun cameo from the Deltans! That's a race I always thought should pop up more.
Picard shouldn't be in Starfleet, clearly. Neither should Dax, or Worf.
Well, this was really intriguing
An exciting and interesting start to the season that kept me bolted to my seat.
What I liked
The story so far works real lot well and I really like the mostly positive positions the characters are now.
Rios and Musiker are back in the fleet…yeah!
Picard is active again.
The depiction of the vineyard day was really well done and well thought.
The acting is, as always, superb.
Loved the mixed class fleet, I saw a nebula, an Akira and something that looked a bit but not quite like an ambassador among the others.
…speaking of wich: the excelsior! Still in service after all these years! We all know that Starfleet likes to keep Excelsiors around, but I really thought it would be a new ship, not the venerable, 100 hundred years old original!
The borg are appropriately scary again…and probably are up to something different this time.
The new uniforms are really nice, better than any of the Picard ones so far.
I like the design of the new Stargazer…the bridge is a bit too busy for me, though.
I liked how they addressed the ageing of Q and Guinan. His ended up being exactly like many had imagined, hers was a nice touch.
The space scenes were much spacier than in the last season.
I really appreciated the call backs to Star Trek Generations, they are very fit with where Picard is now.
Speaking of callbacks, in the scene where Raffi leaves for the Excelsior the music plays a couple of notes from the First Contact theme. I initially dismissed it as a coincidence, but given that the borg show up they are probably intentional.
Things I didn’t like…mostly very minor actually.
I really didn’t like that Picard’s mother was adducted or killed or whatever: we’ve got too many characters with dead parents in Star Trek anyway.
I find the new “deconstructed” musical theme awful. I guess that it makes sense regarding to how time is deconstructed in the season, but I really don’t like it musically.
I think that they should have gone with a bigger time skip: just like in discovery season 3, one year seems too little for where the characters are now.
I wish Rios lost the cigar. It was stupid in season one, it’s even worse now.
While improved from last season, the scenes in space (and some of the cinematography in general) are still too dark and confusing to me.
Speaking of confusing: Picard dons his uniform to give a speech, but he doesn’t when he goes on an actual mission, yet Rios says he’s the flag officer, but it’s actually Rios to take all the decisions afterwards…until PICARD activates the self-destruct of the stargazer?!
All in all a fantastic start, giving it a 9 and looking forward to next week.
An exciting and interesting start to the season that kept me bolted to my seat.
What I liked
The story so far works real lot well and I really like the mostly positive positions the characters are now.
Rios and Musiker are back in the fleet…yeah!
Picard is active again.
The depiction of the vineyard day was really well done and well thought.
The acting is, as always, superb.
Loved the mixed class fleet, I saw a nebula, an Akira and something that looked a bit but not quite like an ambassador among the others.
…speaking of wich: the excelsior! Still in service after all these years! We all know that Starfleet likes to keep Excelsiors around, but I really thought it would be a new ship, not the venerable, 100 hundred years old original!
The borg are appropriately scary again…and probably are up to something different this time.
The new uniforms are really nice, better than any of the Picard ones so far.
I like the design of the new Stargazer…the bridge is a bit too busy for me, though.
I liked how they addressed the ageing of Q and Guinan. His ended up being exactly like many had imagined, hers was a nice touch.
The space scenes were much spacier than in the last season.
I really appreciated the call backs to Star Trek Generations, they are very fit with where Picard is now.
Speaking of callbacks, in the scene where Raffi leaves for the Excelsior the music plays a couple of notes from the First Contact theme. I initially dismissed it as a coincidence, but given that the borg show up they are probably intentional.
Things I didn’t like…mostly very minor actually.
I really didn’t like that Picard’s mother was adducted or killed or whatever: we’ve got too many characters with dead parents in Star Trek anyway.
I find the new “deconstructed” musical theme awful. I guess that it makes sense regarding to how time is deconstructed in the season, but I really don’t like it musically.
I think that they should have gone with a bigger time skip: just like in discovery season 3, one year seems too little for where the characters are now.
I wish Rios lost the cigar. It was stupid in season one, it’s even worse now.
While improved from last season, the scenes in space (and some of the cinematography in general) are still too dark and confusing to me.
Speaking of confusing: Picard dons his uniform to give a speech, but he doesn’t when he goes on an actual mission, yet Rios says he’s the flag officer, but it’s actually Rios to take all the decisions afterwards…until PICARD activates the self-destruct of the stargazer?!
All in all a fantastic start, giving it a 9 and looking forward to next week.
That's not uncommon in real life or in Star Trek. The Admirals usually let the captain's do what they need to do until their input is necessary.
Glad to see Starfleet keeps its self-destruct countdown codes pretty simple. The ranking officer's name plus the numbers and words from both TOS and TSFS. 
Well if you notice, he never lights it, it's actually never lit at all in the entire episode. I think it's just a comfort for him, a tick.
Being a flag officer doesn't mean he is command of the ship at the time.
Admiral Pressman in TNG never assumed command of the Enterprise-D even during the location of the Pegasus, though with his illegal intentions and personality it would have easily been normal for his character to do so.
I think it's pretty clear Picard was meant to have failed here. He sat by passively while a firefight broke out on the bridge, and missed the obvious cues that the Borg Queen was not hostile (only firing once fired upon, and only stunning). Seven's admonishment that Picard should blow up the ship should not have been listened to.
Alternatively, it's possible the Queen sent them back in time, rather than Q doing it.
Zhaban died a year and a half prior, so more than a year passed. It's just only been a year since the synth ban has ended.
EXCERPT:
"On Vulcan I was relentlessly bullied for being half-human. These acts were simply crude efforts performed by unenlightened children to ascertain if my emotional suppression would be sufficient to successfully integrate me into Vulcan society. At the Academy, I encountered something similar--a deep push by my instructors to excel in every field of science offered at the time. They saw my Vulcan discipline as clay to be aggressively sculpted into valuable form. For them, they took the pride in my accomplishments which I could not show. As I learned more, their pride grew stronger. Academic medals awarded to me were as batteries for them to power their devotion to teaching.
I was expected to succeed easily. Others had paved the way for my life of living and working with humans, they said. The names Soval, T'Pol, and T'Pau were dropped with an almost predictable regularity. If I were to follow in their footsteps, I must remain absolutely true to my Vulcan heritage. But I was already living a lie at the Academy. The reason I was so successful was due to the fact I loved learning. It was not mindless inculcation of facts and formulas pored over for hours which sustained my interest and supported my retention. A Vulcan who loves? That's not logical."
Glad I'm not alone on this! I had a feeling Zhaban would be done dirty, but damn, they went all-in on that.
The only thing I'll say in its relative defense, I guess, is that thankfully for my sake I didn't see their first-season stuff as parent/child. Not equal, of course, but... a bit closer to it than that. I think her razor wit and quick deductions in matters outside of Picard's expertise has a lot to do with why she endeared the audience more so, perhaps, than the writers anticipated.
But still, this is the sore spot for me. Everything else is golden, but "Zhaban died a little after you saved the galaxy, yeah, sad times. Anyway, I'm single"
Yeah, that was about the only thing that didn't sit well with me. Zhaban is now dead and we don't even get a framed picture of him or a flashback memory of she and he together.
People don't mourn in the future.
