Using Deepfake in Trek... Yes or no?

[shapeshifter]

Judging by how popular Prodigy's Kobyashi episode was with it's not so perfect reuse of sound samples from various episodes and movies, I think the green light for any worthwhile story to get told using DF where ever needed should be given.

If the bad sound of clips used in that episode can still illicit such a positive response, then our dealing with a little uncanny valley should be a piece of cake, easy as pie.

 

[Commander Troi]

Maybe because it's not a "real" deepfake (stylized animation and old voice clips), and its set on the Holodeck with fake characters.

^ This. As much as I appreciate what they tried to do at the end of Rogue One (for example), I'd rather have had Carrie's real voice without her faked face. The de-aging of living people who can agree to it (like Hamill) is okay. But in general I agree with those who say recast or create new characters.

 

[shapeshifter]

Yeah, she looked bad. The tech has improved since then, though. Can't remember which, but something watched recently had current DFs to excellent results. Not perfect yet but passable, imo. Something Marvel, maybe?

 

[seigezunt]

I agree about Rogue One. The DF of Cushing makes me pause about them doing something more extensively with Nimoy or other familiar actors. I thought the image of Cushing was flawless, but having seen a bunch of his movies, I was distracted by how it didn't really *act* the way he would act in a film. I'd much rather see something done in a more 2D, stylized animation where it leaves more to the imagination. That said, I think it's still likely to happen, and we may have a body of work that ages in the manner that early CGI has.

 

[jackoverfull]

The digiCushing was probably very successful because the character was Tarking, who was already very inhuman in the original movie.

 

[Turtletrekker]

The CGI of Tarkin in Rogue one never bothered me.

I think that perhaps we will see a real test of this technology in the upcoming Star Wars productions with Disney Plus. When a online deepfaker put their CGI Luke Skywalker from the season finale of The Mandalorian to shame, Lucasfilm hired the guy. Why would they hire the guy if they don't intend on using him?

Spoiler: The Mandalorian and the Book of Boba Fett

There have been rumors of Han Solo appearing in The Book of Boba Fett and the most recent episode ended with The Mandalorian saying he was going to visit Grogu, whom he left with Luke Skywalker.

 

[mattman8907]

After seeing what the book of boba fett did with mark hamil

Spoiler

I would love to see a deaged William Shatner interact with Anson Mount.

 

[Vger23]

Yeah, fuck it. Sure, why the hell not?

 

[Roald]

After seeing what the book of boba fett did with mark hamil

Spoiler

I would love to see a deaged William Shatner interact with Anson Mount.

Anson Mount has said that the SNW finale will be something special for TOS fans, so who knows..... I'd personally love to see it happen! I think it's unbelievable that they haven't found a way to involve Shatner in Trek again for almost 30 years.....

 

[fireproof78]

I would like to think that Star Trek is more than one man. Though, the franchise repeatedly demonstrates otherwise.

 

[Danlav05]

Anson Mount has said that the SNW finale will be something special for TOS fans, so who knows..... I'd personally love to see it happen! I think it's unbelievable that they haven't found a way to involve Shatner in Trek again for almost 30 years.....

They've come close - that episode of Enterprise Shatner wanted more money for (either as time-travelling Emperor Tiberius or Daniels getting Kirk's ancestor (Chef) to pose as Kirk for a major event) and the JJ Films - 2009 had a written HoloCameo that I don't think they even deemed fit to pitch, then Orci's unmade Trek XIII would have 'restored Kirk Prime'.

So there have certainly been attempts, just the line never got crossed since 1994. Apart from Starfleet Academy (1997), a DirecTV commercial and that weird Oscars 2013 sketch with MacFarlane (plus the 1996 TV Guide shoot, and his 10 novels/audiobooks with the Reeves-Stevens).

 

[fireproof78]

They've come close - that episode of Enterprise Shatner wanted more money for (either as time-travelling Emperor Tiberius or Daniels getting Kirk's ancestor (Chef) to pose as Kirk for a major event) and the JJ Films - 2009 had a written HoloCameo that I don't think they even deemed fit to pitch, then Orci's unmade Trek XIII would have 'restored Kirk Prime'.

It wasn't that it wasn't fit to pitch but that it didn't make sense as part of the larger narrative. It basically grounded the story to a halt for a character who had not been apart of the film to make a speech.

 

[Danlav05]

Yes, it was interesting that right from day 1 they had Shatner and Nimoy consulting on casting for the film and even jointly promoting it, and we all got the impression that they would both be in it with the new younger Kirk and Spock

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, it was interesting that right from day 1 they had Shatner and Nimoy consulting on casting for the film and even jointly promoting it, and we all got the impression that they would both be in it with the new younger Kirk and Spock

And that was the goal but the scene could not work with the pacing of the film. And, unfortunately, the writer's strike basically meant they had to go forward with the script as it was.

 

[FredH]

It wasn't that it wasn't fit to pitch but that it didn't make sense as part of the larger narrative. It basically grounded the story to a halt for a character who had not been apart of the film to make a speech.

Maybe so, but it was a beautiful little scene that put a better bow on Shatner’s Kirk and tied well into nuSpock’s own arc. I’d have happily sacrificed a couple of minutes for it.

 

[fireproof78]

Maybe so, but it was a beautiful little scene that put a better bow on Shatner’s Kirk and tied well into nuSpock’s own arc. I’d have happily sacrificed a couple of minutes for it.

That's fine, and I probably would have too. But, pacing is an essential part of filmmaking. Also, I don't know if it was part of the draft they ended up shooting with. A writer's strike happened during preproduction and no changes could be made to the script.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Using Deepfake in Trek? Hmm...

I would argue that if the production team is going to use it, they should pay a handsome royalty above and beyond what the salaried players are paid for their standard contracts. Using image and voice without compensation is akin to theft of property. Especially if the players are deceased. Estates should be given due compensation.

The worrying thing about Deepfakes is how they could render film and television actors extinct. Even motion-capture artists will be rendered obsolete one day. Live plays in the theatre will be the only place to see and hear actors sharing their craft.

There will come a time when Deepfake technology will be cheap, fully automated, fully photo-realistic, and then the sky is the limit to where any performance one desires can be fabricated. I'm not sure this is a good thing, unless there is a disclaimer at the beginning of the program stating "The program you are about to watch contains no living players. All performances are computer generated."

And please, no de-aging of Trek actors.

 

[jackoverfull]

I would argue that if the production team is going to use it, they should pay a handsome royalty above and beyond what the salaried players are paid for their standard contracts. Using image and voice without compensation is akin to theft of property. Especially if the players are deceased. Estates should be given due compensation.

Of course: they can’t legally do it without the authorisation of the original actor or their estate.

And please, no de-aging of Trek actors.

why not?

 

[IMC Headquarters]

why not?

It's undignified. If a healthy lifestyle and team of personal trainers literally can't turn back the clock on a body than nothing can or should.

Besides, all this viewer could see is that I'm watching a Deepfake. Takes me right out of the story. I'm watching technical wizardry and not the plot. Example: Tron: Legacy. I saw Jeff Bridges looking young like when he made King Kong, and, shit, did that remind me instantly of the passage of years and why do people have to age and have I done the most with my life and why do we have to grow old and die and I want my own youth back and so do all the actors being de-aged, probably...

But I knew I was watching a special effect. And it made me feel anything but special. And as dear as Trek is to me, well, multiply this by a warp factor of seven or so.

 

[Danlav05]

Rather than deepfake why not just rotoscope the actors into new environments? (i.e. digitally remove the original background) use a body double for behind shots

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