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Casual clothes TNG to PIC - from terrible to far too 2020s?

Side note ... the "civilian" clothes in PIC/DIS will feel dated in a much worse way, because the shapes. tailoring, silhouettes are all basically the same as contemporary real-life clothes, save for perhaps "new" fabrics.

You could say the same thing about clothes from 100 years ago or even 500. The shapes don’t change because the shape of humans doesn’t really change.

Things like trousers, shirts and jackets have been around for so, so long. Technology has seen those shapes refined over the years. We originally had things like cravats and ties because they kept the shirt collar closed before the advent of things like buttons.

Things like buttons and zips have become ubiquitous because they work. The shapes and styles we wear have slowed down their evolution largely because they have reached an apex.

How do you make a pair of trousers better? How can we improve on the dress shirt now? What change do we need to make to a T-shirt?

The reason fashion has changed so much over the centuries is that people were refining the same basic designs over and over. In the latter half of the 20th century this is something that has slowed down as the need for refinement has decreased. Synthetic fabrics, Velcro, elastic and zippers, as well as better manufacturing techniques have all conspired to make clothes more comfortable, elegant and available.

Add to that an increasing homogeneous fashion that comes from the world just being better connected these days. Fashion used to develop differently in differing territories because cultures literally had no idea what people on the other side of the world were wearing.

These days I’d say the T-shirt is ubiquitous. Asian businessmen wear western business suits and whichever country you go to, you won’t have to search long before you find someone in a pair of jeans.

In fact rather than ‘new’ styles, these days it is more common to see fashion influenced by the past. 1960s fashions have seen a comeback in this century, as have clothes from the 70s, 80s and 90s.

I think the show that had the best stab at future-fashion recently was Foundation. Even then though, there are recognisable shapes, textures and fabrics in what they wore.
 
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Most of future fashion should be improvements in:
- Fabric / Material Science
Newer Stronger Fabrics that are tougher, protect the wearer, lighter weight, blocks unwanted radiation, etc.
Keeps Heat in and keeps the body cool in hot environments.
Advances in Water Proofing to keep your body from getting wet.
Advances in Anti-Bacterial technology to keep your clothes cleaner for longer periods of time.
- New Stitching patterns to improve toughness and prevent rips from spreading.
- Fastener Design & Choices to make better Fasteners for closing things.
- Modularity in clothes like Pants that have removable legging sections with zippers on them to convert from
Trouser Mode -> to Capri Mode -> to Shorts Mode.
The same can be applied to long sleeve clothing where the sleeves can have different removeable sections
- New Inks / Dye choices along with advances like ThermoChromic Ink that changes with temperature or ElectroChromic Ink/Dye's applied to clothing where your clothes can change color at the press of a button without having to supply a constant feed of electricity to maintain said color.
- Practical Clothing forms becoming more popular along with bringing back certain older styles of clothing like "Capes & Cloaks" on top of existing clothing trends.
 
You could say the same thing about clothes from 100 years ago or even 500. The shapes don’t change because the shape of humans doesn’t really change.
I’m not sure I understand your point. The clothes of both PIC and TNG remain human in shape. If anything, it’s the PIC clothes that can be less form-fitting and less revealing if the human form that are more “changed.”

Things like trousers, shirts and jackets have been around for so, so long. Technology has seen those shapes refined over the years.
And they will continue to unless you think this is the end of history. That is a “failure of imagination.”

Things like buttons and zips have become ubiquitous because they work. The shapes and styles we wear have slowed down their evolution largely because they have reached an apex.
Tell that to Ensign Ro who magically took off her seamless, buttonless, zipless top to give to a Bajoran girl on that camp on Valo II.

How do you make a pair of trousers better?
Elastic yet comfortable and sexy to look at. Also, how about odor eating — so you never have to worry about farting or a sweaty crotch.

How can we improve on the dress shirt now?
No buttons, different collar, removable/retractable sleeves.

What change do we need to make to a T-shirt?
Temperature-controlled, self-cleaning, programmable color and design, programmable sleeve length and collar shape, invisible breast pocket(s).

The reason fashion has changed so much over the centuries is that people were refining the same basic designs over and over. In the latter half of the 20th century this is something that has slowed down as the need for refinement has decreased.
I think we’re in a Postmodern period now where we’re reveling in existing designs in new ways, but even so there is innovation, and, as technology continues to develop, there will unquestionably be new designs introduced. If not from a stunted West, then from an up and coming East or South…or Mars lol Or from the West too as we move past Postmodern. That is, unless we devolve backward for a few centuries in a new Dark Age…I’ve always wanted to try on a monk’s outfit.

These days I’d say the T-shirt is ubiquitous. Asian businessmen wear western business suits and whichever country you go to, you won’t have to search long before you find someone in a pair of jeans.
And yet, I almost never wear jeans. And rarely wear T-shirts except usually to bed, and even then they’re usually V-necks.

I think the show that had the best stab at future-fashion recently was Foundation. Even then though, there are recognisable shapes, textures and fabrics in what they wore.
That’s a great show! We’ve talked about it at the Zoom meetings. :nyah:
 
No buttons, different collar, removable/retractable sleeves.
Temperature-controlled, self-cleaning, programmable color and design, programmable sleeve length and collar shape, invisible breast pocket(s).
Thinking about Back to the Future Part II and also the culture of the planet Samstead, as depicted ADF's HC novel, Sentenced to Prism.
 
Hi Arpy, please read the following in the friendly tone it's intended. I'm very much enjoying talking to you. :)

And they will continue to unless you think this is the end of history. That is a “failure of imagination.”

I don't think it's the end of history, but I don't think it's a failure of imagination to imagine that some things change so much (in form) and then halt. I don't expect to see vastly different cars from this point forwards either, at least aesthetically. Four wheels, seats and so on.

Also, how about odor eating — so you never have to worry about farting or a sweaty crotch.

I'll come back to this later, but how do you put that onscreen or even make it relevant to a story? Can you imagine Starfleet officers talking about how they have a proper stinky cock, so it's a good job the uniform eats the odour?

No buttons, different collar, removable/retractable sleeves.

No buttons on shirts has happened. Different collars have happened, though it's probable we will have variations.

Detachable shirt sleeves... that's cloud cuckoo land to me.

Temperature-controlled, self-cleaning, programmable color and design, programmable sleeve length and collar shape, invisible breast pocket(s).

As above, how do you depict any of that meaningfully onscreen?

For that matter, how do we know clothing on Trek doesn't already do that? It's the kind of thing I'd be interested to see mentioned in a technical manual, but as far as a television narrative goes it's about as interesting as having the exact composition of the material that makes up hull plating spelt out.

AND AT THIS POINT I think we are talking about different things anyway. I'm talking about aesthetics, you're talking about features. There's nothing to say a TOS uniform isn't temperature controlled, but really what I'm objecting to is people walking around in a toga with a fish-bowl on their head or whatever.

I think we’re in a Postmodern period now where we’re reveling in existing designs in new ways, but even so there is innovation, and, as technology continues to develop, there will unquestionably be new designs introduced. If not from a stunted West, then from an up and coming East or South…or Mars lol Or from the West too as we move past Postmodern. That is, unless we devolve backward for a few centuries in a new Dark Age…I’ve always wanted to try on a monk’s outfit.

Agreed, and very well put. I find living and working in Vietnam I'm often required to wear local formal dress (Ao-Dai) to events and it's greta fun trying new styles.

And yet, I almost never wear jeans. And rarely wear T-shirts except usually to bed, and even then they’re usually V-necks.

That's the kind of anecdotal evidence that doesn't add up to much though. You not wearing jeans doesn't mean Levis don't sell a few million pairs every year.

That’s a great show! We’ve talked about it at the Zoom meetings.

Agreed on that too!

Peace out, Arpy. I hope you don't feel I'm being confrontational. It's just clothes on Star Trek after all. :)
 
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It's just clothes, so it doesn't matter that much, but I'd like to challenge the notion that contemporary clothes will look more dated than whacky ones to future audiences.

Put a guy in jeans and a T-shirt, he might look dated in 30 years. Put a guy in a neon jumpsuit, he will look dated in 30 years.
1960s futurism doesn't look futuristic anymore, it looks decidedly 1960s (or, more recently: Back to the Future II's view of future fashion - though that one was deliberate).
On the other hand, the suits from 50s noir movies look less dated. Still a bit, given their prevalence, but less so than wild looks.
 
Jeans and T I agree, timeless at least for the last 50+ years. But what they are rocking in Picard and Disco (even further in the future) are far more 2020s than jeans and a T.
 
Jeans and T I agree, timeless at least for the last 50+ years. But what they are rocking in Picard and Disco (even further in the future) are far more 2020s than jeans and a T.

I don't see it. Mostly in DSC they are wearing Starfleet uniforms and any civilian clothes are consistent with things we've seen in other iterations of the franchise.

What garments in particular are problematic?
 
I don't see it. Mostly in DSC they are wearing Starfleet uniforms and any civilian clothes are consistent with things we've seen in other iterations of the franchise.

What garments in particular are problematic?
It's just the general feel that I'm not watching something set in a different time period until I see a ship or piece of tech. The colours are dark and dull like everything worn right now (as contrasted with the bright colours of the 60s or 90s say) and the fabrics all look totally familiar.
https%3A%2F%2Fshowsnob.com%2Ffiles%2Fimage-exchange%2F2018%2F08%2Fie_36507-850x560.jpeg


Look at Rios here. I love Rios. But you could tell me this image was from a show about oil rig workers (or something) filmed last year and I'd believe it.

Book here:
ccelebritiesstar-trek-discovery-embed1-641x280.jpg


That's supposed to be 1000 years after the above. It's the same drab stuff.

Compared to the not too out there clothes from All Good Things:

2b044b1f-5a40-459a-8081-697fb39449ff-beverly-picard.jpeg


Some subtle colours, odd tunic cuts, different neck lines. They aren't crazy Flash Gordon stuff, but they do look not of this time.
 
@Phil123

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. I can't see much difference in the images you posted. Rios's vest in particular contains a lot of the unusual lines you see on the TNG image. The colours are brighter in TNG, but that's as much due to it being a product of the 1990s as anything else.

Basically, show me a person walking down the high street dressed like Rios and I'll concede. He's pulling off a sort of Han Solo vibe and no-one gets in a tizzy about that characters clothing. I don't think either Booker or Rios look like contemporary 2020s people there.
 
Happy to agree to disagree. I have my eyes open for anyone I can get a snap of on the high street though! Without getting myself in trouble of course.
 
haha I never said they were good. Just didn't look like products of mid-90s fashion.

I dunno... Shapeless, baggy, autumnal, woollen garments with splashes of plaid...

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/46/f7/da/46f7da7dea2edb433939cb2b93502f9b.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/68/5d/99/685d99e10be845403a02cd56eb9f93eb.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8a/40/cf/8a40cfab87af3a8d9cf75afd8baf6052--mens-casual-wear-men-casual.jpg

I concede that the PIC/DSC clothes look like contemporary fashion through a futuristic lens, but then I think the outfits in All Good Things there look equally like 1990s garments put through the same process. Much like TOS fashion looks like a futuristic version of the 1960s.

Also, much like 1990s fashion, the clothes the TNG folks are wearing in that picture are foul. ;-)
 
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I don’t think they look foul. Picard’d does, but what’s wrong with Geordi’s? And Data is in a British inspired suit per his current position at Cambridge. Up the production budget to DSC’s and they’d be amazing.

Also, these are supposed to be the wacky future’s wacky future’s outfits. I mean, look at Crusher’s uniform. In what world does that get approved as a legit Star Trek series uniform? So Picard’s outfit is turned up to 11, and it’s too much.

But that’s the thing. Both with Picard here and Chekov in STIII, you have to have the stomach for occasional disappointment.
 
I dunno... Shapeless, baggy, autumnal, woollen garments with splashes of plaid...

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/46/f7/da/46f7da7dea2edb433939cb2b93502f9b.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/68/5d/99/685d99e10be845403a02cd56eb9f93eb.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8a/40/cf/8a40cfab87af3a8d9cf75afd8baf6052--mens-casual-wear-men-casual.jpg

I concede that the PIC/DSC clothes look like contemporary fashion through a futuristic lens, but then I think the outfits in All Good Things there look equally like 1990s garments put through the same process. Much like TOS fashion looks like a futuristic version of the 1960s.

Also, much like 1990s fashion, the clothes the TNG folks are wearing in that picture are foul. ;-)

not sure I agree those pics look like the All Good Things ones, but I will concede that I don’t like the modern style Picard is riffing off of to begin with. I like colours!
 
not sure I agree those pics look like the All Good Things ones, but I will concede that I don’t like the modern style Picard is riffing off of to begin with. I like colours!

Less the clothing itself and more the fabrics and general shapelessness.

The nineties, looking back, was a dreadful
time for fashion. And I wore that shit as a teenager…

I don’t think they look foul. Picard’d does, but what’s wrong with Geordi’s? And Data is in a British inspired suit per his current position at Cambridge

Agreed that Geordi and Data look alright, but Picards outfit… it’s not flattering at all.
 
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I concede that the PIC/DSC clothes look like contemporary fashion through a futuristic lens, but then I think the outfits in All Good Things there look equally like 1990s garments put through the same process. Much like TOS fashion looks like a futuristic version of the 1960s.
Exactly. It isn't as futuristic as it sometimes claims. It works, every once in a while, but largely when I watch Star Trek I can get a sense of where those fashions came from. Which is why PIC/DSC doesn't bother me. It feels like it grows from the past, not outright ignoring it for the sake "the future!"
 
haha I never said they were good. Just didn't look like products of mid-90s fashion.
Honestly, when I look at that screencap from AGT, it practically screams 1990s to me. Maybe that's not what Average Joe wore as he strolled down the street of the 1990s, but that is definitely what John Hollywood would visualize as "futuristic" in the 90s.
 
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