No, I didn't watch Nickelodeon in the 80s. I didn't have cable when I was in high school, and when I was in college, I wasn't watching "kids" shows.
Star Trek TOS Re-Watch
- Thread starter Commander Troi
- Start date
No, I didn't watch Nickelodeon in the 80s. I didn't have cable when I was in high school, and when I was in college, I wasn't watching "kids" shows.
Well, I admit to watching the channel mostly for Star Trek Animated.
And then later for Ren and Stimpy.
Well, I admit to watching the channel mostly for Star Trek Animated.
And then later for Ren and Stimpy.
Hear hear!
"No, I'm from Iowa. I work in space."
I sometimes tell people I'm from L.A. because I was born in Lynwood, but I actually moved to El Centro when I was 1. So him being from Iowa does not preclude him moving to Tarsus IV at an early age.
not canon of course but the novel Drastic Measures has Kirk and his mother living there for some project she's involved in while his father is incommunicado on one of the early Connie class ships before they went public about them (I can't remember which one. I listened on audiobook and don't have a readable copy) . I don't think George was there. George definitely didn't witness the killing as far as the book goes. It's a pretty dramatic scene as one might expect.
Kirk has some interesting encounters with some youngish Starfleet officers later seen in Discovery. A really fun book.
That depends on the relative chronology of various episodes.
If you take the opinion that TOS episodes can happen in any order (except for the rare cases when one episode is a sequel to another) and there there are no clues about the order of TOS episodes, then any TOS episode during the five year mission could up up to almost 6 years befoe or after another TOS epiosode during the 5 year mission.
In "The Deadly Years" Kirk testified that he was 34 years old.
If all the orders which peoplle usually put TOS episodes ar rejected, and if one says that the epiosdes could happen in any order, then Kirk's age in any episode could be as low as 28 or as high as 40. If sone considers Short Treks to be canon "Ephraim and Dot" would support that posiittn.
Various quotations in "Shore Leave" lead me to deduce that KIrk's first ("plebe") year at Starfleet academy ended 15 years earlier. Assuming that "15 years" is between 14 and 17 years, and assuming that Kirk was 28 to 40 years old in "Share Leave", Kirk's first year at Starfleet Academy ended when Kirk was aged 11 to 26.
The Tarsus IV massacre happened "20 years" before "The Conscience of fhe King". Assuming that "20 years" would be between 19 years and 21 years, and assuming that Kirk was aged 28 to 40 in "The Conscience of fhe King", Kirk could have been aged between 7 and 21 during the Tarsus IV Massacre.
So there is a large overlap between Kirk's possible age at Starflleet academy and his possible age during the Tarsus IV Massacre.
If someone assumes that TOS epsiodes don't happen in broadcast order, or production order, or stardate order, o rany other logical order, but in a purely random and unknown order.
If someone makes the usual assumptions about TOS chronology both "Shore Leave" and "The Conscience of the KIng" happen before "The Deadly Years" and probably only a few months apart. And that means that the Tarsus IV Massacre happend a few years before KIrk's first year at Starfleet academy.
During the 20th century, the minimum age to attend a US armed forces academy has been 17 years, while the typical cadet entered at the age of 18. And many of the ceators of TOS would have been aware of that, and so they probably believed. that Kirk entered Starfleet Academy at about age 18.
In fact Kirk's biography in "The Making of Star Trek" says that Kirk entered Star feet Acaemy aged 17, the minimum age.
17 plus 14 to 17 puts Kirk's age in Shore Leave" at 31 to 34. If Kirk was also about that age in "The Conscience of the KIng", then the Tarsus IV Massacre 19 to 21 years earlier would make Kirk about 10 to 15., at least a few years before he entered Starfleet Academy.
If you use the more usual chronological assumptons, and assume that Kirk had a fairly normal Starfleet career, except for unusually rapid promotion, The Tarsus IV Massacred happened when Kirk was probably a civilian aged about 13, years before he entered Starleet Academy.
To make Kirk a cadet at Tarsus IV one has to:
One) make unusual chronological assumptions.
Or:
Two) Make the usual chronological assumptions,but assume that Kirk had a very unusual Starfeet career. In that asssumpiton Kirk entered Starfleet Academy twice, and maybe graduated and was commissioned twice. Teh first time was as a child, and included his experiences on Tarsus IV. But then the laws or regulations were changed and the minimum age to enterStarfleet was raised. Kirk became a civilian again, and entered Starfleet Academy again aged 17, which was the plebe year mentioned in "Shore Leave".
So as I said, the usual assumptions about TOS chronology and Kirk's career indicate he was a civilian at Tarsus IV, present on the planet for unspecified reasons we can only guess at.
He is only called a midshipman on Tarsus IV in the script, those scenes where not filmed or were edited out of the episode.
KIrk was refered to as Lt. Kirk when Gary Mitchell entered the Academy, so I naturally assume that he actually was a lt. then and that it was after "Obsession".
According to "Whom Gods Destroy", Kirk was on the Axanar Peace MIssion (for which he was decorated) when he was "a new fledged cadet". You forgot about that.
I am from Lancaster, PA; Germantown, Philadelphia, PA; Jenkintown, PA; State College, PA; Chalfont, PA:: Perkasie, PA; and soon to be from Quakertown, PA. And probably most people move more often and farther than I do.
Last edited:
Tl;dr. As usual. Seriously, not everything needs an essay length reply.
Gah! I haven't been in here in over a month! Sorry about that. I plan to resume my re-watch on Monday and will use production order, as you all have convinced me that's best here. 
FYI, I watched the TAS episodes "Yesteryear" (which made me cry - a lot) and "One of Our Planets Is Missing" in early December. I'll post about them here this weekend.
FYI, I watched the TAS episodes "Yesteryear" (which made me cry - a lot) and "One of Our Planets Is Missing" in early December. I'll post about them here this weekend.
Last edited:
"Yesteryear" by D. C. Fontana
So much here! Fontana not only deepens our understanding of Spock as a character, she also digs more into Sarek, Amanda, and Vulcan culture. Plus, she made me bawl my eyes out.
The opening sets up a nice little mystery: after using the Guardian of Forever for historical research, Spock's history is changed so that he died when he was 7, and his mother died shortly after. He remembers being saved by a cousin he never saw again and realizes he must use the Guardian to be that "cousin".
We see young Spock, tormented by other children as a "half-breed". As someone bullied as a child, my heart broke for him. At Spock's home, we see a younger Sarek and Amanda. It was easy to see why father and son have issues later!
Spock mentors his younger self and here says something really crucial about Vulcans.
When Spock's pet, I-Chaya, fights to save him and gets poisoned, young Spock goes to get a healer. And we get to see adult Spock's love and compassion.
When I saw this as a child, I probably didn't understand, but now I've had to do what young Spock did next too many times.
Spock goes home, after first asking Sarek to try and understand his son better, which I thought was lovely. But then, there's this exchange, which Nimoy delivered beautifully.
Absolutely perfect in every way.
So much here! Fontana not only deepens our understanding of Spock as a character, she also digs more into Sarek, Amanda, and Vulcan culture. Plus, she made me bawl my eyes out.
The opening sets up a nice little mystery: after using the Guardian of Forever for historical research, Spock's history is changed so that he died when he was 7, and his mother died shortly after. He remembers being saved by a cousin he never saw again and realizes he must use the Guardian to be that "cousin".
We see young Spock, tormented by other children as a "half-breed". As someone bullied as a child, my heart broke for him. At Spock's home, we see a younger Sarek and Amanda. It was easy to see why father and son have issues later!
Spock mentors his younger self and here says something really crucial about Vulcans.
SPOCK: There is some human blood in my family line. It is not fatal. What you do not yet understand, Spock, is that Vulcans do not lack emotion. It is only that ours is controlled. Logic offers a serenity humans seldom experience in full. We have emotions but we deal with them and do not let them control us.
When Spock's pet, I-Chaya, fights to save him and gets poisoned, young Spock goes to get a healer. And we get to see adult Spock's love and compassion.
SPOCK: This did not happen before. My life decision was made without the sacrifice of yours, old friend. I know there is pain. I can help a little. Sleep now.
When I saw this as a child, I probably didn't understand, but now I've had to do what young Spock did next too many times.
Spock goes home, after first asking Sarek to try and understand his son better, which I thought was lovely. But then, there's this exchange, which Nimoy delivered beautifully.
KIRK: I sent the others up to the ship. What happened?
SPOCK: One small thing was changed this time. A pet died.
KIRK: A pet? Well, that wouldn't mean much in the course of time.
SPOCK: It might, to some.
SPOCK: One small thing was changed this time. A pet died.
KIRK: A pet? Well, that wouldn't mean much in the course of time.
SPOCK: It might, to some.
Absolutely perfect in every way.
I never understood the logic of Spock saving himself but I agree this episode was essential to Spock's background. I'm glad that Amanda left Sarek here. At least she had some compassion for Spock when he was a boy. In Amok Time she was all Sarek you've made Spock's life miserable but I still love you."Yesteryear" by D. C. Fontana
So much here! Fontana not only deepens our understanding of Spock as a character, she also digs more into Sarek, Amanda, and Vulcan culture. Plus, she made me bawl my eyes out.
The opening sets up a nice little mystery: after using the Guardian of Forever for historical research, Spock's history is changed so that he died when he was 7, and his mother died shortly after. He remembers being saved by a cousin he never saw again and realizes he must use the Guardian to be that "cousin".
We see young Spock, tormented by other children as a "half-breed". As someone bullied as a child, my heart broke for him. At Spock's home, we see a younger Sarek and Amanda. It was easy to see why father and son have issues later!
Spock mentors his younger self and here says something really crucial about Vulcans.
SPOCK: There is some human blood in my family line. It is not fatal. What you do not yet understand, Spock, is that Vulcans do not lack emotion. It is only that ours is controlled. Logic offers a serenity humans seldom experience in full. We have emotions but we deal with them and do not let them control us.
When Spock's pet, I-Chaya, fights to save him and gets poisoned, young Spock goes to get a healer. And we get to see adult Spock's love and compassion.
SPOCK: This did not happen before. My life decision was made without the sacrifice of yours, old friend. I know there is pain. I can help a little. Sleep now.
When I saw this as a child, I probably didn't understand, but now I've had to do what young Spock did next too many times.
Spock goes home, after first asking Sarek to try and understand his son better, which I thought was lovely. But then, there's this exchange, which Nimoy delivered beautifully.
KIRK: I sent the others up to the ship. What happened?
SPOCK: One small thing was changed this time. A pet died.
KIRK: A pet? Well, that wouldn't mean much in the course of time.
SPOCK: It might, to some.
Absolutely perfect in every way.
I think you mean Journey to Babel.
And I think she always had compassion for her son, but had committed herself to the Vulcan way of life. I was just skimming the transcript of JtB, and Amanda says Spock hasn't visited in 4 years, but later says Spock and Sarek haven't spoken as father and son in 18 years. I always figured he stayed in contact with his mother. She wasn't on bad terms with Spock. But yes, the death of her child would logically (snort!) cause her to leave.I'm curious - does anyone know if there's a novel or anything about how Sarek and Amanda met and fell in love? I remember one that had something about how tough it was to have Spock and the doctors who helped him be born (The Vulcan Academy Murders, I think) but that's it.
I think you mean Journey to Babel.
I'm curious - does anyone know if there's a novel or anything about how Sarek and Amanda met and fell in love? I remember one that had something about how tough it was to have Spock and the doctors who helped him be born (The Vulcan Academy Murders, I think) but that's it.
If I remember correctly Spock's World describes how Sarek and Amanda met.(in that story).
For chronological reasons I have always supposed that Amanda was unusually young when she met Sarek and thus their relationship might have seemed weird to some. I have imagined that the 23rd century equivalent of tabloid newspapers might have had headlines like "Alien Ambassador Elopes with Teenage School Teacher!".
I have that book; I'll need to check. Thanks!
Love the headline!
Thank you.
"One of Our Planets Is Missing"
One of Star Trek's many (MANY) spatial anomaly episodes. This one probably taught me several anatomical words.
The episode does a good job of building suspense for the planet in jeopardy and the ever-popular "we only have x amount of time" is used well to move the story along. The nice part about this episode is that, while still making plans to self-destruct if necessary to destroy the cloud critter, Kirk has enough doubt and concern about doing the right thing that he asks Spock to try to mind-meld and see if it's intelligent. It is and it has no desire to hurt anyone, so it just... leaves.
A tight episode that would be good to show to kids not put off by the animation style.
One of Star Trek's many (MANY) spatial anomaly episodes. This one probably taught me several anatomical words.
The episode does a good job of building suspense for the planet in jeopardy and the ever-popular "we only have x amount of time" is used well to move the story along. The nice part about this episode is that, while still making plans to self-destruct if necessary to destroy the cloud critter, Kirk has enough doubt and concern about doing the right thing that he asks Spock to try to mind-meld and see if it's intelligent. It is and it has no desire to hurt anyone, so it just... leaves.
A tight episode that would be good to show to kids not put off by the animation style.
I'm baaaaack.
Hubby's off playing poker tonight, so I took y'all's advice and switched to production order.
The Corbomite Maneuver by Jerry Sohl
I only remembered the end of this episode, so the tension throughout really impressed me. About 90-95% of the action is on the bridge, which gives it a nice claustrophobic feel. The opening sets us up beautifully - Enterprise is mapping because they're "the first to reach this far." Later, it's mentioned that "star maps reveal no indication of habitable planets nearby." Kirk references their mission several times, which reminds us that we're exploring the frontier and have no idea what we'll find.
Apparently, this was the first episode to feature the "space: the final frontier" monologue. Still gives me chills.
We first see Kirk with his shirt off. McCoy is running his quarterly physical. In ignoring the flashing red light and his comments to Kirk, it seems it's tough to get the Captain to actually take his physical. Technically, the first "I'm a doctor, not a..." jokes.
Bailey is set up right from the start as a bit out of his depth. He's nowhere near as calm and composed as everyone else on the bridge. When he tries to defend his reaction to the cube, Spock throws some shade and Sulu laughs because he knows better.
There are some really nice character moments throughout the episode between Kirk and McCoy, Kirk and Spock, and Kirk and Scotty. Kirk is very much the Center around which the action revolves, and he has some terrifically snarky lines aimed at Bailey. But Bailey's struggle is the emotional core of the story and Anthony Call gives a strong performance. BTW, he's still around. IMDB shows him doing a lot of documentary narration these days.
Were those frosted panes with colored lights behind them always in the ceiling of the bridge?
"Meters" seem *awfully* close to me... but perhaps that was the point.
I vaguely remember both the cube and the Fesarius being pretty scary to me as a little kid.
"Phaser crews" and "United Earth ship Enterprise" - wow. I sometimes forget that these things were still in flux for a bit.
Kirk has issues with salad. And his weight. I love how Rand is respectful but firm.
I have often wondered if those earpieces were uncomfortable. Also, those red edges on the consoles are where you grab on!
Bailey's freakout makes sense in context - they were trapped for 18+ hours by the cube, McCoy mentioned everyone being exhausted and his concern for Bailey, all systems are dead, and a creepy (but kinda obviously a puppet) alien is going to destroy them. BUT... everyone else is doing their jobs. So McCoy was probably right.
I loved watching the light bulb come on over Kirk's head. Poker! Given this week's episode of Discovery, I found that serendipitous. Sulu's reaction to Kirk bluffing is great.
Spock mentions his mother is an Earth woman. So we got that out of the way.
*Really* nice pause after the countdown ends and they're still alive. It's easy to see Kirk was holding his breath.
Rand brings coffee. Poker and coffee - the key to any successful Starfleet mission!
I was shocked - shocked, I say! - that Scotty didn't scream about his poor engines. Still working on that characterization.
The reactions when Kirk said they were then going to rescue the tow ship... and then this:
Scotty tells them to bend low, but McCoy still nearly bumps his head.
Then, that lovely ending. I love Kirk's face throughout that final scene. He's amused, relieved, and quite happy.
Hubby's off playing poker tonight, so I took y'all's advice and switched to production order.
The Corbomite Maneuver by Jerry Sohl
I only remembered the end of this episode, so the tension throughout really impressed me. About 90-95% of the action is on the bridge, which gives it a nice claustrophobic feel. The opening sets us up beautifully - Enterprise is mapping because they're "the first to reach this far." Later, it's mentioned that "star maps reveal no indication of habitable planets nearby." Kirk references their mission several times, which reminds us that we're exploring the frontier and have no idea what we'll find.
Apparently, this was the first episode to feature the "space: the final frontier" monologue. Still gives me chills.
We first see Kirk with his shirt off.
McCoy is running his quarterly physical. In ignoring the flashing red light and his comments to Kirk, it seems it's tough to get the Captain to actually take his physical. Technically, the first "I'm a doctor, not a..." jokes.Bailey is set up right from the start as a bit out of his depth. He's nowhere near as calm and composed as everyone else on the bridge. When he tries to defend his reaction to the cube, Spock throws some shade and Sulu laughs because he knows better.
There are some really nice character moments throughout the episode between Kirk and McCoy, Kirk and Spock, and Kirk and Scotty. Kirk is very much the Center around which the action revolves, and he has some terrifically snarky lines aimed at Bailey. But Bailey's struggle is the emotional core of the story and Anthony Call gives a strong performance. BTW, he's still around. IMDB shows him doing a lot of documentary narration these days.
Were those frosted panes with colored lights behind them always in the ceiling of the bridge?
"Meters" seem *awfully* close to me... but perhaps that was the point.
I vaguely remember both the cube and the Fesarius being pretty scary to me as a little kid.
"Phaser crews" and "United Earth ship Enterprise" - wow. I sometimes forget that these things were still in flux for a bit.
Kirk has issues with salad. And his weight.
I love how Rand is respectful but firm.I have often wondered if those earpieces were uncomfortable. Also, those red edges on the consoles are where you grab on!
Bailey's freakout makes sense in context - they were trapped for 18+ hours by the cube, McCoy mentioned everyone being exhausted and his concern for Bailey, all systems are dead, and a creepy (but kinda obviously a puppet) alien is going to destroy them. BUT... everyone else is doing their jobs. So McCoy was probably right.
I loved watching the light bulb come on over Kirk's head. Poker! Given this week's episode of Discovery, I found that serendipitous. Sulu's reaction to Kirk bluffing is great.
Spock mentions his mother is an Earth woman. So we got that out of the way.
*Really* nice pause after the countdown ends and they're still alive. It's easy to see Kirk was holding his breath.
Rand brings coffee. Poker and coffee - the key to any successful Starfleet mission!
I was shocked - shocked, I say! - that Scotty didn't scream about his poor engines. Still working on that characterization.
The reactions when Kirk said they were then going to rescue the tow ship... and then this:
MCCOY: Jim, don't you think...
KIRK: What's the mission of this vessel, Doctor? To seek out and contact alien life, and an opportunity to demonstrate what our high-sounding words mean.
KIRK: What's the mission of this vessel, Doctor? To seek out and contact alien life, and an opportunity to demonstrate what our high-sounding words mean.
Scotty tells them to bend low, but McCoy still nearly bumps his head.
Then, that lovely ending. I love Kirk's face throughout that final scene. He's amused, relieved, and quite happy.
Similar threads
