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Spoilers Strange New Worlds General Discussion Thread

Honestly, the biggest design decision SNW has made that gives me pause is that the Aenar character seems to have a full silicone face mask - which is my least favorite aspect of Kurtzman-era design by far.

Doug Jones can pull it off because he's had a long history of playing heavily made up characters. But having makeup caked on so heavy that the actor can't smile or yawn...it's dumb.
 
I think it's cool they're brining in an Aenar.

‪‪I do too, and it’s especially cool that they cast Bruce Horak, a very talented actor and artist, with a visual impairment, and that aspect of the Aenar will be portrayed with consideration that, in spite of them being an alien species, will provide real and authentic representation for an underrepresented group.
 
I did not know that error, probably because no one says they're in the 28th century. it's based on an assumption of a child trickster being and a meteorologist.
Maybe the term "28th century" isn't specifically stated directly, but Kirk literally calls the 19th century "nine hundred years ago." If that doesn't indicate he's claiming it's the 28th century, what does?
do you really not see the difference? it's a little obvious.
The only difference I see is that you like the older shows and are therefore more forgiving of things they got wrong, while you don't like the newer shows and are therefore less forgiving of their errors.

Or maybe like isn't the proper term. I suspect you came to the franchise after a lot of the key worldbuilding was already done, so when you look at things like James R Kirk, Data's Academy graduation or whatever, you pass those off as "things hadn't been established yet" as opposed to viewing the later revelations that Kirk's middle name was Tiberius or that TNG's first season is apparently fourteen years before Data graduated as the errors that those who were there at the time did. But now that you see things changed in the current shows, you view them as errors or mistakes or changes because they are different from what was when you first became a fan.
 
I have a theory that could explain the two sides:
Does the "change everything and explain nothing" side have the tech manuals, Fact Files, BTS books, and do they read MA articles, or do they just watch the show and aren't interested in any background or connections beyond the current show or even the current episode? And does the "change nothing and explain any changes" side value these tech manuals, fact files, BTS books, and MA, and don't just watch the show like they would watch a sitcom, or Baywatch, or a crime show, where connections, continuity, etc. are far less relevant? Perhaps for people who don't care about continuity and details and connections, and having things just simply fit with the rest of the universe, it's just popcorn entertainment. I get the impression that we don't like unexplained changes because they contradict not only the previous shows, but all these books as well (the Encyclopedia, the Fact Files, the Chronology, everything the Okudas and Sternbach et al. wrote with great effort and dedication), and updated editions that include all the changes would be very messy.

I don't need an in-universe explanation for why Starbase 1, stated on screen in Discovery to be 100 AU from Earth, is shown still orbiting it. I know that the reason is that the VFX crew screwed up, why would I need to craft convoluted explanations about an Oort cloud object whose ice structures incidentally happen to mimic the coastline of the St. Lawrence River or that the length of an AU might have been redefined by the 23rd century, when I can just recognize it as a mistake and disregard it?
Of course, speculation about the hows and whys is perfectly okay. It can be a fun pastime. The problem is when the "I wonder why" becomes "It needs to be explained."
Starbase 1 is a mistake, not a deliberate change in continuity. There's a difference between those.
Your side says "it doesn't have to be explained", but then also says "it cannot, must not, should not be explained". There's also a difference between those. Perhaps... apples and oranges?

Star Trek is not a historic documentary and it isn't a factual depiction of actual future events.
"This isn't just silly science fiction. Star Trek is a period piece, it's an invented period, but you need to observe the traditions, and the continuity, and the styles."
"We're very lucky that people pay such close attention. It shows they love the show."
- Mike Okuda

Only if there's a good reason. They don't just things willynilly.
What was the good reason for the Disco Klingons and their ships, swords, interiors? What was the good reason for a compressed Enterprise with slit, angled pylons?

Like I said to another person above, apples and oranges. It's one thing to replicate '60s sets, costumes and filming models for a one-off 30th anniversary homage. It's an entirely different thing to create an entire show in the 2010s-20s that takes place entirely in that era and is broadcast in Full HD. Exact reproductions of 60-year-old production assets simply don't stand up to scrutiny in a modern production, no matter how often certain people keep pointing at fan films that were created for a very specific set of viewers anyway. A modern audience simply wouldn't accept an exact reproduction of the TOS assets as a realistic extrapolation of 23rd century technology.
If one-offs (4 of them) compared to whole shows are apples and oranges, then so is Data's one-off year comment, the one-off Trill design, and the one-off Kirk middle name compared to deliberate and persistent changes following persistent continuity.
Who said anything about "exact reproductions"?
 
What was the good reason for a compressed Enterprise with slit, angled pylons?
I already said earlier.

Don't know where in the chain of command the pylons became slanted, but they weren't that way in the final design Eaves submitted. That happened after he was done designing it. Same with the glows on the inward sides of the nacelles.

What was the good reason for the Disco Klingons and their ships, swords, interiors?
Bryan Fuller wanted them to look more alien.
 
Does the "change everything and explain nothing" side have the tech manuals, Fact Files, BTS books, and do they read MA articles
I do. Have for 20+ years.

Doesn't change the fact that things will change in the continuity. My investment in reading those things doesn't change that. It also doesn't change my investment in the show. Characters change my investment.
 
Maybe the term "28th century" isn't specifically stated directly, but Kirk literally calls the 19th century "nine hundred years ago." If that doesn't indicate he's claiming it's the 28th century, what does?
Where do they mention the 19th century?

The only difference I see is that you like the older shows and are therefore more forgiving of things they got wrong, while you don't like the newer shows and are therefore less forgiving of their errors.
Is ABBBBBB different from AAAAAAAB or not? Are Data's year, Trill design, and JR Kirk ABBBBB or not? Is the Disco redesign stuff AAAAAAAB or not?

I already said earlier.

Don't know where in the chain of command the pylons became slanted, but they weren't that way in the final design Eaves submitted. That happened after he was done designing it. Same with the glows on the inward sides of the nacelles.

Bryan Fuller wanted them to look more alien.
Those are good reasons?
 
Where do they mention the 19th century?
Do you seriously not recognize Trelane is dressed in 19th century clothes and his home has 19th century furnishings? If these did fly under your radar, which apparently they must have, how about the fact Trelane refers to his pistol as a replica of the one that killed Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton died in 1804, which is in the 19th century.

But please, continue to refuse conceding this point.
 
I have a theory that could explain the two sides:
Does the "change everything and explain nothing" side have the tech manuals, Fact Files, BTS books, and do they read MA articles, or do they just watch the show and aren't interested in any background or connections beyond the current show or even the current episode? And does the "change nothing and explain any changes" side value these tech manuals, fact files, BTS books, and MA, and don't just watch the show like they would watch a sitcom, or Baywatch, or a crime show, where connections, continuity, etc. are far less relevant? Perhaps for people who don't care about continuity and details and connections, and having things just simply fit with the rest of the universe, it's just popcorn entertainment. I get the impression that we don't like unexplained changes because they contradict not only the previous shows, but all these books as well (the Encyclopedia, the Fact Files, the Chronology, everything the Okudas and Sternbach et al. wrote with great effort and dedication), and updated editions that include all the changes would be very messy.
I have Memory Alpha bookmarked and regularly double-check it for my arguments. Only that I don't care about the visuals looking different because they're just visuals. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, the Tech Manuals and Fact Files aren't canon, and they're certainly not holy scripture. The hull of the Enterprise being a specific color and the plates having an exact specific pattern, its neck being an exact specific length, its pylons having an exact specific angle, its decals having an exact specific font and its bridge deck protruding out of the primary hull in an exact shape without any windows on its front are simply not what I consider to be the lifeblood of Star Trek. The stories, the characters, the places, the events are. It looks different because TPTB decided it shall look different, but it's intended as a depiction of the same thing nonetheless and it's close enough to the original anyway so I can accept it as being a depiction of the same thing. The Enterprise is recognizable as the Enterprise, Klingons are recognizable as Klingons even if I myself believe that the new makeup is ugly, it's about what I would expect for an effort of bringing Trek into the 21st century.
 
Seriously? He references Napoleon by name, and his decor is of the time.
Credit where is due, even if he has a bust of the most famous holder of the name, Trelane doesn't actually specify which Napoleon he's talking about... who knows, it might be Charles, Prince Napoléon, who goes by Napoléon VII, or his son and rival to the throne, Jean-Christophe, who sometimes goes by Napoléon VIII, and both are alive today.

I jest, of course. It has to be Charles, because Jean-Christophe wasn't even born when the episode was filmed.
 
Seriously? He references Napoleon by name, and his decor is of the time.
Do you seriously not recognize Trelane is dressed in 19th century clothes and his home has 19th century furnishings? If these did fly under your radar, which apparently they must have, how about the fact Trelane refers to his pistol as a replica of the one that killed Alexander Hamilton. Hamilton died in 1804, which is in the 19th century.

But please, continue to refuse conceding this point.
TRELANE: Oh, really? Have I made an error in time? How fallible of me.

see above. it is a mistake. clothes, furniture, and pistols were not in our history classes. remember, your point was that I didn't recognize the mistake back then when I watched it, which I have explained.

Credit where is due, even if he has a bust of the most famous holder of the name, Trelane doesn't actually specify which Napoleon he's talking about... who knows, it might be Charles, Prince Napoléon, who goes by Napoléon VII, or his son and rival to the throne, Jean-Christophe, who sometimes goes by Napoléon VIII, and both are alive today.

I jest, of course. It has to be Charles, because Jean-Christophe wasn't even born when the episode was filmed.
Someone mentioning a historic figure and having their bust on display says nothing about the time they're in.

Only that I don't care about the visuals looking different because they're just visuals. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, the Tech Manuals and Fact Files aren't canon, and they're certainly not holy scripture.
You are indeed correct. For that matter, the Encyclopedia is not canon or holy scripture either.
If you don't care about visuals, why is them being different and no longer consistent so important to you?
Everything shown in the FF and Enyclopedia is canon, since they use pictures and information from the canon shows. The tech manuals also show things from the canon shows, only the tech background in the text is not canonical.
 
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Everything shown in the FF and Enyclopedia is canon, since they use pictures and information from the canon shows. The tech manuals also show things from the canon shows, only the tech background in the text is not canonical.
That's not how canon works. By that logic, Memory Alpha is canon, even though it's literally fanmade. Hell, the posts where I'm explaining various in-universe tidbits are canon with the exception of whatever conclusions I'm drawing from them. Using, reformulating and restating canon information doesn't make your product canon, just like how the Unofficial Holy Bible for Minecrafters is not an accepted part of the canon of the Roman Catholic Church, despite being a literal Bible. Only the Church could decree it to be canon, just like how it's the prerogative of ViacomCBS to decide what Star Trek's canon includes and what it doesn't.

TRELANE: Oh, really? Have I made an error in time? How fallible of me.

see above. it is a mistake. clothes, furniture, and pistols were not in our history classes. remember, your point was that I didn't recognize the mistake back then when I watched it, which I have explained.
If Trelane really did see 900 years into the past, he should've seen and reproduced things from the Hundred Year's War. You don't exactly need to be a history buff to know that the middle ages and the Napoleonic era didn't exactly look the same.

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If you don't care about visuals, why is them being different and no longer consistent so important to you?
I'm a Star Trek fan. I would've watched the series either way, even though I prefer an update. I didn't have a problem with it looking the same in Trials and Tribble-ations and In the Mirror, Darkly. But the wider audience, including casual viewers, and new fans who came after 2009 or even started out with Discovery, would find retro visuals jarring unless retro is their thing. And of course they went for the TOS era when restarting the franchise after more than a decade of a break, Kelvinverse notwithstanding, and even that used the same reasoning. When most people hear the words 'Star Trek', they're thinking of Spock and his pointy ears, the Enterprise, and maybe Captain Kirk. Having a brand new series follow up after the TNG era with the occasional reference to Picard and Janeway just wouldn't have brought in the viewership numbers Discovery's TOS references did, that ultimately allowed the studio to begin branching out once more.
 
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Everything shown in the FF and Enyclopedia is canon, since they use pictures and information from the canon shows. The tech manuals also show things from the canon shows, only the tech background in the text is not canonical.
It's not, since there is often conjecture from the writers to create a book in the first place. The Encyclopedia would often offer author commentaries as well, as well as occasional inaccurate information. So, as far as consistency goes, it's right up there with the shows :D
 
Everything shown in the FF and Enyclopedia is canon, since they use pictures and information from the canon shows.

No, it is not. Gene Roddenberry is not Robert April. Many things are simply there to flesh out the material.
 
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