I had a weird theory about Discovery

[Gingerbread Demon]

I'm probably not the first person to think this but I just wondered if there is a loop somewhere in the future and that the sphere we met in episode 4 of season 2 was actually the Discovery itself much more evolved and much more massive with lots of stuff added on over time?

So when the sphere encountered the Discovery it insured its own creation.

 

[shapeshifter]

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[YellowSubmarine]

That wouldn't make any sense, because it is not only a classic predestination paradox, it's the less excusable version of that creates an absurdly awful lot out of thin air.
1. It's a hell of a lot of information and a conscious lifeform coming out of existence with no evolution or backstory, just like that.
2. A lot of the sphere data will have to be false, since it created its own existence.*
3. It undoes Zora evolving her consciousness, since it would mean she got it from herself.

So I say, probably 92.6% chance they go with exactly this theory in the penultimate episode.


* If they actually do this, and do make half of the Sphere data fake and of no apparent origin, I'd actually thoroughly enjoy it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

That wouldn't make any sense, because it is not only a classic predestination paradox

Wouldn't be the first time.

ST:FC and VOY's "Future's End" tend to spring to mind.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

That wouldn't make any sense, because it is not only a classic predestination paradox, it's the less excusable version of that creates an absurdly awful lot out of thin air.
1. It's a hell of a lot of information and a conscious lifeform coming out of existence with no evolution or backstory, just like that.
2. A lot of the sphere data will have to be false, since it created its own existence.*
3. It undoes Zora evolving her consciousness, since it would mean she got it from herself.

So I say, probably 92.6% chance they go with exactly this theory in the penultimate episode.


* If they actually do this, and do make half of the Sphere data fake and of no apparent origin, I'd actually thoroughly enjoy it.

Why would you enjoy it?

My theory has tons of holes though, for instance the Sphere taking readings off Kaminar thousands of years ago and all the other life forms it encountered. Unless you mean something else could have been faked?

 

[YellowSubmarine]

Why would you enjoy it?

In short, if the show does something crazy like that, I'd like hints that it was thought through and it was included after a way for it to work has been imagined, and not just randomly added at the end as if it automatically works. It will also acknowledge that the idea adds more mystery and less understanding instead of answering all, which would feel intuitively right for such an ending.

Plausibility-wise, I don't think predestination paradoxes are out of the question. Simple ones can happen by chance, while ones creating information seemingly coming out of nowhere can be explained by converging of multiple timelines into one, the information coming out of a previous, currently unseen iteration. Someone even created a time travelling programming language, in which you could compute the square root of the number by simply performing an operation only square root would satisfy in the future, and then looping the whole thing in the virtual machine until it fit, which accidentally lead to the execution of the Newton method for calculating square root. So the mechanism for it works.

That's not how time travel in Star Trek has been described to work (which doesn't mean it isn't how it does work), nor the plausibility is 100% important to the story, but acknowledging that it makes the origin of Zora less tractable to human minds hints to that plausible explanation, concurs with the viewer's doubts, and actually implies Zora's sentience evolved in a way more complex than other sentiences in the universe did, instead of coming straight out of nowhere.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Hmmmmmmm I like that you make some very good points. Anyway at the time I had all kinds of ideas like maybe even the sphere was related to the beings that later on build V'Ger

 

[YellowSubmarine]

OK. I'm sold on it now. The Sphere is Discovery, the Sphere data is Zora, and the DMA is just the Sphere/Discovery travelling back in time after assimilating Craft in Calypso, now doing test jumps like Lorca in Season 1, to determine how to jump back further.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

OK. I'm sold on it now. The Sphere is Discovery, the Sphere data is Zora, and the DMA is just the Sphere/Discovery travelling back in time after assimilating Craft in Calypso, now doing test jumps like Lorca in Season 1, to determine how to jump back further.

Well it's not like Star Trek hasn't done weirder things before has it?
I also thought maybe the Sphere was either related to, or was one of the beings that built V'Ger

 

[Dukhat]

I also thought maybe the Sphere was either related to, or was one of the beings that built V'Ger

Oh lord, not this again.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Oh lord, not this again.

Well it's fun to speculate since we don't know the race that built V'Ger and novels don't count

 

[XCV330]

Oh lord, not this again.

I have thought that as well, or at least some connection to the machine entities that made V'ger, or whatever V'ger-Decker-Ilia became. It has been spending millennia wandering about, cataloging information. it set itself up to be found, essentially laying an egg for the next version of itself inside Discovery, a.k.a Zora. It is a machine entity but different enough from A.I that 32nd century scientists don't classify it as such.

 

[Dukhat]

I have thought that as well, or at least some connection to the machine entities that made V'ger, or whatever V'ger-Decker-Ilia became.

And again, I'll bring up the question of what kind of payoff does the audience get to have the cause of the DMA be V'Ger or who made V'Ger? The DSC writers are not writing these shows for people who know TMP like the back of their hands. They're writing the shows for the 2022 generation of Trek fans who don't need to go back and watch a mediocre Star Trek film from 1979 to figure out what's going on.

 

[XCV330]

And again, I'll bring up the question of what kind of payoff does the audience get to have the cause of the DMA be V'Ger or who made V'Ger? The DSC writers are not writing these shows for people who know TMP like the back of their hands. They're writing the shows for the 2022 generation of Trek fans who don't need to go back and watch a mediocre Star Trek film from 1979 to figure out what's going on.

Vger is one of many loose ends in Trek, or at least an avenue of exploration. I don't think they are going to take it in that direction. But a lot of people might not have guessed they'd make a sequel episode to The Cage 50 years later, either.

 

[Dukhat]

But a lot of people might not have guessed they'd make a sequel episode to The Cage 50 years later, either.

And how well that turned out is of dubious opinion.

 

[XCV330]

And how well that turned out is of dubious opinion.

One of my favorite episodes of Trek

 

[fireproof78]

Vger is one of many loose ends in Trek, or at least an avenue of exploration. I don't think they are going to take it in that direction. But a lot of people might not have guessed they'd make a sequel episode to The Cage 50 years later, either.

Well, when you put it that way I suppose it could be interesting. I've wanted a Pikes since I saw the Cage so I can appreciate that follow up series. Having the Talosians appear again was a pretty nice nod towards fans such as myself.

While I don't see much in the way arguing for the origin being V'ger's machine planet, it would be a fun thing to explore a potential loose end from Trek's past.

 

[Dukhat]

One of my favorite episodes of Trek

Good for you. I felt it had nothing of the feel of the original episode it was based on. They didn't even bother trying to make the Talosians female with male voices.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm not seeing the people who put together the Sphere Data building V'Ger. This is the reason: Zora knows a lot more about feeling, empathy, and knew better than to try to wipe out "carbon-based units". The Ilia-droid was V'Ger Personified, and had to learn about feeling and had to be taught that "carbon-based units" are "true lifeforms".

The Sphere Data was from tens of thousands of years ago. V'Ger was programmed and repurposed only 300 years earlier. So you'd think whoever would've repurposed V'Ger would've known more about the galaxy and carbon-based units, if they're the same people who created the Sphere Data, not less.

 

[Vger23]

I kind of wish people would get away from theorizing that some legacy threat or entity from the franchise is responsible for this.

I really REALLY don't think it's the case.