Star Trek is not, and never was, particularly progressive

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Watersluis, Dec 23, 2021.

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  1. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    See: Many prog rock bands. Or Bernie Sanders.
     
  2. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Progressive Rock is neither progressive nor rock. Discuss.
     
  3. Watersluis

    Watersluis Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Indeed, but in Picard the somehow cast that away again.

    No, I claimed that every country in the Americas was; your argument about racism in Europe does not address that either in the correct geography, nor does it even speak of skin color homogeneity.

    Firstly, with Klingons the actor may have a race, but since that is completely hidden by the makeup the character does not. — There is no way to tell that Worf and Martok are played by actors of very different skin tones.

    Pure speculation in this case is requiring the existence of cosmological coincidence for it not to be the case; if it were a crime to do this, it would be enough enough to convict them in a court of law based on statistics that there are very few black characters in the title, no other Bajorans, and the one that Benjamin and Jake Sisko end up with just happen to be?

    It is true that there was obviously no greater reason behind Tuvok's skin color than it simply existing, a bit implausible for a desert planet with a homogeneous climate and I like that all Vulcans had the skin tone humans had that live in deserts, but I accept it, but then Tuvok's spouse and family came along and they also deviated from the common Vulcan skin tone that had been shown for all Vulcans except Tuvok hitherto? That is again an implausible coincidence to not be a deliberate act.

    They still insist on having the males play by human male actors, and the females by human female actors.

    Yet it still goes on today in Star Trek, and it did to a far less extent i, say, Star Wars in the 80s already. Of course there we exceptions such as the Xindi Aquatics, but these were rare in Star Trek, and more common in Star Wars.
     
  4. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Ned Romero ( Chitimacha Nation) played Krell in "A Private Little War",
     
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  5. BK613

    BK613 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Michael Ansara was born in Lebanon and was of Lebanese decent.
     
  6. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    Kras (Aka Bob the discount Klingon) was played by Tige Andrews a Syrian-American.
     
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  7. 1001001

    1001001 Serial Canon Violator Moderator

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    3F9D0C8D-5E92-40CB-9B1F-2DB7B442E423.jpeg
     
  8. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So...we're agreed the premise of the OP complaint is debunked? Seems that way.
     
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  9. 1001001

    1001001 Serial Canon Violator Moderator

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    Do we even agree on what the premise actually was?

    I’m still not sure.
     
  10. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Something something something wrong casting...
     
  11. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That depends… what the hell is the OP actually saying? I’m still not sure.
     
  12. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Vice Admiral Admiral

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    IDK, but suddenly I have a lot to say about Genesis, Peter Gabriel, and "Musical Box."
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

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    • George Takei and Garrett Wang cannot play Asians
    • Everyone in the will be brown in the future because sex
    • Anglo Saxons don't like nudity
    • All beaches in Europe are nude beaches
    • Only U.S.A has racial strife
    • Aliens shouldn't have boobs
    • Something about "North American" gender roles being expressed through haircuts.
    • A lot of other gibberish.
     
  14. GNDN18

    GNDN18 270 Rear Admiral

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    A flower?
     
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  15. Watersluis

    Watersluis Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I never said this and I never mentioned the word “Asian”.

    I did say this.

    I did say this, but not in the O.P..

    I said “in large parts of Europe”, but yes.

    I never said this, and I never touched upon racial strife.

    No, reptilian aliens; Obviously it is fine of Mammalian aliens have them.

    I said something about that, yes.

    It's really not that hard to understand. If you find it hard to understand it's simply looking for a deeper meaning behind it than what's said, or expect it to be about something it is not, which makes you confused.
     
  16. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Something about Star Trek not being the way he likes it.

    So...it could be anything. :shifty:
     
  17. Watersluis

    Watersluis Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Or it could just be what I said it was, which isn't hard to understand:
    • “Races” as we know them today stil existing 300 years into the future
    • Too many U.S.A. characters; too little of the rest of the world
    • Aliens following human secondary sex characteristics
    • Even entities such as holograms, clouds of gas, and liquid lifeforms somehow having a “male” and “female” “gender”, and with that I mean “gender”, not “sex”.
    • Both humans and nonhumans alike following contemporary U.S.A. fashion standards 300 years into the future
    It is really quite simple and easy to understand what I dislike.
     
  18. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ? They didn't hide the skin tone of either Hertzler (Martok) or Dorn (Worf). They obviously don't appear to be of the same ethnic background.
     
  19. BK613

    BK613 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Last edited: Dec 26, 2021
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  20. Watersluis

    Watersluis Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Looking it up, Worf has slightly darker skin, but there is no way to tel what the actor's actual skin tones are under all that makeup:

    [​IMG]

    Is this sarcasm? Worf's skin might be in the neighborhood of Michael Dorn's, but Martok's skin is several degrees darker than J.G. Hertzler's.
     
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