I'm going to check Fox News. This sounds like one of those stories that necessitates the red and white flashing "ALERT!" at the bottom of the screen.
Pakistani Captain
- Thread starter SeamusShameless
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They should do something original, 2001 already had a space Muslim.
Will I go to hell because I can't stop laughing at that?
She makes me want to pray towards Mecca.They should do something original, 2001 already had a space Muslim.
For some reason I am reminded of these little guys...
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NobodySavedMe
Cadet
Very controversial.I hope he does not talk with that jarring Pakistani accent.
How will Middle America react to this brown bread,post 9/11?
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I hope you didn't think I was saying anything to the contrary. I agree wholeheartedly.That's true. Not everyone associated with Star Trek had the virulent, spiteful attitude towards religion that Roddenberry showed. Hell, even he didn't show it very much early in his career... it mainly came during his "dope smokin' and coke snortin' 70's" phase. Several of the key players in TOS Trek were actually quite devout in their faith. For that matter, several people associated with TNG were as well, though it was less prevalent then (for reasons which would drag this thread off topic entirely).
My point... Trek wasn't ALWAYS stridently anti-faith, and not everyone involved in Trek was stridently anti-faith. Just a few (admitted fairly LOUD) voices... in a pretty large choir.
As goes the chior director, so goes the choir.
I don't care whether the charecter is the devout muslim, or if we get to hear him chant a prayer. If done right, it might be tasteful. I'm just not keen on making him the "token muslim" where every scene is about him being a muslim. I've seen those kinds of characters way to often to be impressed by them -- the gay character whose entire life is ZOMG I'm Gay, the black sidekick in action movies who only seem able to wisecrack, that kinda stuff isn't good storytelling in my opinion. If he's a captain, and he's a muslim yet also a well rounded character, that would work.
I'd like a character who the audience, generally speaking, won't NOTICE the "unique character bits" about... unless (as in this case) you're a muslim and notice him wearing some small item, saying some small phrase, or so forth.
A similar example would be a Catholic helmsman who might briefly "cross himself" before steering the ship into some near-suicidal situation. Nothing OVERT, nothing that would be distracting... just something that lets those who are familiar with this gesture recognize it.
Agreed. The entire audience finds that sort of "beat them over the head with preachiness" approach to be obnoxious.I kinda always ignored it when Trek characters tried to knock religion. It reminds me of the episode (I think it's Long Ladder) where Riker says something like humans are more evolved now and we don't eat meat. Give me a break.
Hell, vegetarians I know found that "over the top."
Fortunately, later Trek stuff (including DS9) made it abundantly clear that this comment was totally BS.
That is, unless you don't consider the sort of fare sold in Pop Sisko's New Orleans restaurant to be "meat." (I know people who quibble that "fish isn't really meat" which I find ludicrous... animal muscle tissue is meat, doesn't matter if it walks or swims!)
I kinda always ignored it when Trek characters tried to knock religion. It reminds me of the episode (I think it's Long Ladder) where Riker says something like humans are more evolved now and we don't eat meat. Give me a break.
It was Lonely Among Us.
Personally, I don't see the need for all the furore because the actor is ethnically Pakistani. We don't know if the character is Muslim yet, and if he is, so what? It's a bit like worrying that casting a Greek actor is a sure sign we'll get a Greek Orthodox crewmember.
I hope you didn't think I was saying anything to the contrary. I agree wholeheartedly.That's true. Not everyone associated with Star Trek had the virulent, spiteful attitude towards religion that Roddenberry showed. Hell, even he didn't show it very much early in his career... it mainly came during his "dope smokin' and coke snortin' 70's" phase. Several of the key players in TOS Trek were actually quite devout in their faith. For that matter, several people associated with TNG were as well, though it was less prevalent then (for reasons which would drag this thread off topic entirely).
My point... Trek wasn't ALWAYS stridently anti-faith, and not everyone involved in Trek was stridently anti-faith. Just a few (admitted fairly LOUD) voices... in a pretty large choir.
As goes the chior director, so goes the choir.
I don't care whether the charecter is the devout muslim, or if we get to hear him chant a prayer. If done right, it might be tasteful. I'm just not keen on making him the "token muslim" where every scene is about him being a muslim. I've seen those kinds of characters way to often to be impressed by them -- the gay character whose entire life is ZOMG I'm Gay, the black sidekick in action movies who only seem able to wisecrack, that kinda stuff isn't good storytelling in my opinion. If he's a captain, and he's a muslim yet also a well rounded character, that would work.
I'd like a character who the audience, generally speaking, won't NOTICE the "unique character bits" about... unless (as in this case) you're a muslim and notice him wearing some small item, saying some small phrase, or so forth.
A similar example would be a Catholic helmsman who might briefly "cross himself" before steering the ship into some near-suicidal situation. Nothing OVERT, nothing that would be distracting... just something that lets those who are familiar with this gesture recognize it.
So uh, he won't be shouting "Allah Ackbar!" as he flies his ship into an enemy space station?
No seriously...I think this is cool. Trek is supposed to be a utopian future where people from all cultures, sexes, "races", and even species work together...so
I really don't care what kind of religious beliefs this "Federation Captain" has ... I'm far more interested in what kind of ship he's commanding! Please, let it be a Deadalus Class!
South Asian would be more accurate than Middle Eastern, if referring to the actor. What his character turns out to be like is, as you say, another story.
Trek was never anti-faith, stridently or otherwise, some inept and preachy dialogue in TNG notwithstanding. Anyone contending it was really hasn't paid very close attention.My point... Trek wasn't ALWAYS stridently anti-faith, and not everyone involved in Trek was stridently anti-faith. Just a few (admitted fairly LOUD) voices... in a pretty large choir.
Yes... that's exactly correct. And part of that means "different beliefs."So uh, he won't be shouting "Allah Ackbar!" as he flies his ship into an enemy space station?
No seriously...I think this is cool. Trek is supposed to be a utopian future where people from all cultures, sexes, "races", and even species work together...so
Atheism is every bit as much of a "religion" as any other religion. So atheism denies the existence of God (something which must be taken on faith, obviously). So do several eastern religions. It has its own (unproven) idea of the origin of the universe. It meets EVERY criteria involved in defining something as a religion. And like every other religion, it has its "open-minded adherents" and it's "fanatics." The "fanatics" seek to silence all opposing voices.
That's utterly intolerant and the very opposite of the "IDIC" concept which Trek claims to champion. Granted, I may not agreed that Mohammed was visited by angels, or that Joseph Smith read magic writing on gold plates in a hat, or that Elvis shows up in mold formations on underpasses, or that the Pope is infallible... I'd never dream of trying to silence and oppress those who do. I may roll my eyes, but it's their life, and as long as they don't try to keep me from believing what I choose to believe, they should be free to believe.
This is one of the things that I'm referring to when I mention that the TNG-era really had many things that made me see the "fascist utopian" feel of Hitler's propaganda films. They claim to be "tolerant" but the only thing that they seem "tolerant" of is Southern Californian culture.
Like it or not, blame it on NBC executives requiring it or whatever you like... there are bits in TOS which make it VERY clear that the characters in those shows were aware of, and (particularly in the case of Uhura) seemed to HOLD these beliefs.
And that, as part of IDIC, is the way Star Trek SHOULD be.
I'm all for an Arab character... if the character is well-written and well-acted. Of course, that doesn't mean it's a MUSLIM character... but I'm all for that as well, provided that the same criteria apply.
Just don't make it a GIMMICK like Roddenberry tried to do when he came up with his TNG characters (which, thankfully, the actors were MOSTLY able to move beyond over time!)
Yes, you are right...and I did correct that in my next post. In fact some - including myself - say Southwest Asia when speaking of Pakistan, Afganistan, and surrounding countries -- although Southwest Asia is what most people commonly call the middle east, and does not normally include Pakistan and Afganistan, as you have correctly pointed out.
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Knock the racial slurs off, right now.
It's pretty bad when I can see a thread title and know what the arguments are going to be before I even open the thread.
We have a Pakistani actor playing a fictional captain in a space show.
Therefore he must automatically practice the Muslim faith and will be praising Allah whilst firing the ship's phasers. Please...
You make baby Jesus weep.
A part from that, I agree with everything else you said.
Actually the real reason for the hat is in 1969 they could not fake the long flowing hair in zero G useing computers, so poof, on goes a hat.
AND no i'm not suggesting 2001 needs a 2001 CGI update, DO NOT WANT.
- W -
* Just thought i'd point that little bit of trivia for folks *
At this point I really ought mention former Tennis player, turned actor Vijay Amritraj, who played a Captain in Star Trek IV and was Her Majesty's Man in India helping James Bond in Octopussy.
Positive representation of the Asian continent is so important these days... especially in American movies.
Good job there was no internet back in 1986... imagine the outrage at having a sporting celebrity in Star Trek?
Positive representation of the Asian continent is so important these days... especially in American movies.
Good job there was no internet back in 1986... imagine the outrage at having a sporting celebrity in Star Trek?
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