So why are the blueprints/schematics saying Constitution vs Starship on the dedication plaque?
Constitution Class Ships Seem To Be Everywhere
- Thread starter There Be Whales Here
- Start date
Re: Class J, that might be a designation of capability or something else, as opposed to a designator of a specific class of ship. That would explain why a class J ship could be both civilian and Star Fleet.
As the scripting of "The Way to Eden" progressed from it's first draft to it's second revised final draft (it's shooting draft), the stolen ship's name progressed from the X19 to the Argo to the Aurora. All of these ships except for the Aurora are described as "small and rather like the Enterprise shuttlecraft." When the revised pages came down for the second revised final draft, merely three days before principal photography started, the ship was now described as a cruiser. I strongly suspect that the shooting model had already been designed (and maybe fabricated) by then, i.e., when the ship was described as resembling the Enterprise's shuttlecraft.
An old "Class J starship". Mudd's Class J could still be the same class but just of a lesser capability...
Scripts can be written however they want, but what matters is what was seen. There's nothing to support the notion of Constitution Class in the Original series called STAR TREK in their 79 airing episodes. When the title of Starship is heard it is referring to the Enterprise and when our heroes refer to another vessel with the same title; it should be automatic to someone who has common sense that it must be a similar vessel of the Enterprise's likeness.Unless they envisioned a ship called the U.S.S. Starship, I'd say Roddenberry and the other producers didn't know that a class gets named for the first such ship. The U.S.S. Starship's commissioning plaque motto would be "We can build this dream together."
Sorry if I missed it above, but can anybody point out the first canon mention of "Constitution Class" in the franchise? All I can think of off the top of my head are:
0. Star Trek Blueprints (1975). Not canon, but a resource to the filmmakers.
1. TNG "The Naked Now" (1987). Picard refers to Kirk's ship in a historical computer record.
2. Star Trek VI (1991). Scotty looks at refit blueprints labeled Constitution Class.
3. TNG "Relics" (1992). Picard says "Constitution Class" aloud when he enters the Holodeck.
So is that it? And if so, where did Franz Joseph get it from?
The only proof I'm holding true is the plaque on the bridge of the Enterprise. That should be enough, don't you think?
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- There may have been a previous "starship" class that was superseded.
- Mendez might simply have misspoken. I've heard trained exterminators slip and use "hornet" when they mean "wasp" and vice versa in the same conversation.
Perhaps similar to what happened in "The Alternative Factor" where they planned to use the shuttlecraft for the two Lazarii and at the last minute came up with the Jetson's saucer.
If they had built a model for Sevrin’s ship, even if the script changed, why wouldn’t they have still used that model rather than stick some nacelles on the Tholian ship? It’s not like the Tholian ship had any means of determining scale. It could have been as small as a shuttlecraft as well.
That's the model he means.
I know, I'm the one that quoted the dialog upthread earlier today. But peeps are focusing on class J (as if that can only be applied to one thing) and ignoring that one was called a cargo ship and the other a starship (on a show where that word was held as something special.)
To clarify my posts, in my case I already acknowledged that those could be two different things. I'd've been fine with it either way, as referring to two different class J's, or to one and the same. However, I think the situation has already sailed, at least for the time being: AFAIK, in officially licensed behind-the-scenes printed matter, they are considered one and the same.
We can go for either angle there, absent real writer intent or any in-universe demands: "Class J" might be one of freighters, perhaps even the very same we saw in ENT, and is a valuable training tool for cadets just like so many unarmed antiques today are - or then everything out there comes in "Class J", including freighters, starships and shuttles, and very much including the 22nd century in addition to the 23rd. Plenty of fun to be had either way.
But "The Menagerie" is the one episode alongside "Return of the Archons" to establish "starships" that are definitely intended to be different and distinct from the sort Kirk flies. One is given a special class letter, the other is ancient history. So there goes any hope of equating "starship" with "Kirk's dozen" and nothing but it.
Timo Saloniemi
But "The Menagerie" is the one episode alongside "Return of the Archons" to establish "starships" that are definitely intended to be different and distinct from the sort Kirk flies. One is given a special class letter, the other is ancient history. So there goes any hope of equating "starship" with "Kirk's dozen" and nothing but it.
Timo Saloniemi
Class J is Starfleet slang for "piece of junk." Even Spock uses it. That's why it applies to both Pike's accident and Mudd's stolen ship.
I was confused by the terms ‘designed’ and ‘fabricated.’ They imply that a new model was built when it was just a reuse with some nacelles added on.
Where did those come from?
They were constructed from something. But they were attached to a model that was already built for a previous episode as an alien ship which is now a Federation ship, rather than an entirely new model.
What od yu mean that it ws scripted in "Space Seed"?
Something that is scripted is something which is written in the script to be said aloud by a character or seen by the audience. "Constitution class" was not said aloud. So do you know what the script said Khan was looking at? The only way to tell would be to look at the script. It is quite possible that the schematic details were not in the script. And how visible are they in the best versions of the episode, and how visible were they on tv sets in the 1960s? And is it in the original TOS or merely in TOS-R?
It is quite possible that the schematic and its writing wre considered to be more or les invisible to the audience, and so nobody cared whether it was consistent with canon.
And possibly while Khan was reading about the phaser on "Starship class starships" he rerad that the phasers on "Constitution class starships" were morepowerfull and looked up the schematics of phasers on constitution class scarships.
And most of that applies to the constitutionclassdiagram Scott looked at in "The Trouble with Tribbles".it is possi
I provided a link, so you can go there to see what I mean by it, assuming the remark isn't clear enough on its face.
But the simplest explanation is usually the best one. The makers' intention was that the Enterprise was a Constitution class ship, or else they wouldn't have put that detail in (on the chance that the film editor would put a readable insert of the graphic into the episode).
I think "starship class" is a very broad category, and Constitution class is the particular kind of starship the Enterprise is. The Constitutions have that honor, to be classed as starships based on their speed and range.
My headcanon on the "Starship Class" vs "Constitution class" is broadly inline with Royal Navy and US Coast Guard policy where some ships have a class name based on a number, the lead ship or the naming scheme... For example, the Hamilton-class cutter [led by the Hamilton], is sub-divided into the Secretary-class (named for former Sec Treasury) and the Hero-class [Douglas Munro, Jarvis and John Midgett, all naval heroes]. So all Starship-class vessels would be named for previous starships, but might be disambiguated with additional names based on revised prototypes or similar.
