... as long as it looks exactly as the good ol' us of a
Is Starfleet a military organization?
- Thread starter Commander Troi
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"Number One" comes from the British navy.
In "The Cage," the ranking system seems to be more like the Age of Sail Royal Navy with a captain and lieutenants. In the pilot, Number One's rank is Lieutenant... not the later retconned Lieutenant Commander. And she's the First Lieutenant, hence "Number One." Spock functions as the Second Lieutenant.
More or less.
The single stripe rank is of course typically associated with the rank of Lieutenant for the rest of TOS.
Via WNMHGB and Charlie X we can reasonably assume that Chris (like Kirk) should have worn the two solid stripes normally associated with a Commander, which continued to be worn by Federation "merchant marine" personnel at least into the 2260s.
The single stripe rank is of course typically associated with the rank of Lieutenant for the rest of TOS.
Via WNMHGB and Charlie X we can reasonably assume that Chris (like Kirk) should have worn the two solid stripes normally associated with a Commander, which continued to be worn by Federation "merchant marine" personnel at least into the 2260s.
I've never taken the pilot rank braids seriously. They're simply not fully enough developed.
That's a valid point.
Agreed!
I went more by how Pike addresses Number One in dialogue than the braids.
And yet Chief Garrison had his own unique braid.
And Null and Void had a division symbol with the arrowhead found only in the first pilot film.
Maybe, god forbid, Pike was a mere lieutenant in command of a sloop of war, a Captain-by-courtesy, surrounded by junior lieutenants, warrant officers, and young gentlemen.
Or, has been said, the marks of rank weren’t quite fleshed out for the two pilots.
And Null and Void had a division symbol with the arrowhead found only in the first pilot film.
Maybe, god forbid, Pike was a mere lieutenant in command of a sloop of war, a Captain-by-courtesy, surrounded by junior lieutenants, warrant officers, and young gentlemen.
Or, has been said, the marks of rank weren’t quite fleshed out for the two pilots.
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Think the Enterprise would be more of a First-Rate vessel than a sloop-of-war. Well, certainly, during TOS proper since the E was a Starship with a capital "s", which held higher regard than any other spacecraft.
Also from all the production material, it's clear that Pike's actual rank was intended to be Captain.
Also from all the production material, it's clear that Pike's actual rank was intended to be Captain.
In a society without money who pays to build the bridge at a 35.5 degree angle on a may-or-may-not be military ship that may-or-may-not be Starship class?
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That somewhat depends on whether you're using the British definition (an unrated vessel) or the American (third-rate frigate, post-ship or corvette).
I agree that Enterprise would not be an unrated vessel, however it strongly resembles a "cruising vessel" or frigate that is moderately armed, but mostly deployed on solo duty rather than in the "line of battle" as first and second rates mostly were (cf dreadnoughts and battleships).
The term "cruiser" -- with or without the clarifier of "heavy" depending on era -- used in canon is a perfectly serviceable and accurate term IMO.
Yeah, that's about right.
Particularly as Hornblower was called out as a specific influence in the early days.
Certainly not his later command, the Sutherland, a 74-gun ship of the line (aka battleship), much less something like the first-rate 104-gun ship of the line (aka battleship) HMS Victory.
Particularly as Hornblower was called out as a specific influence in the early days.
Certainly not his later command, the Sutherland, a 74-gun ship of the line (aka battleship), much less something like the first-rate 104-gun ship of the line (aka battleship) HMS Victory.
And a surgeon! It seems like it could be, but I don't know if that would have held up with engineers and other specialists.
Yeah... That's harder to compare with the sailing era. A first rate would be a flagship of a fleet or major squadron, so would never operate on its own. The routine colonial support and patrol type work Enterprise is usually doing would definitely be handled by vessels on the smaller end, sloops and corvettes; the diplomatic and higher-prestige duties would be more for a large frigate. In Victorian times, a frigate would have a captain and a commander second in command, a corvette would have a captain and a lieutenant as 2iC, and a sloop a commander and a lieutenant.
Yes, I figure he would introduce himself with his real rank to the Columbia people.
Yeah, the comparison isn’t an exact one-to-one, but since the Starship Class of TOS is the elite spacecraft, a First Rate comes to mind. But good point that the E’s missions were more akin to that of a frigate.
I think it is telling that they left at least Enterprise and possibly other connies out of the Klingon-Federation War. If it had continued to get worse obviously they might have been recalled. Of course just because we never see them in the battle scenes doesn't mean they weren't there, but the Battle of Binary Stars seemed to have everything but the USS K'tchen S!nk in the gray, and not one Connie was there. Even the Shenzhou was an outlier in the battle as it was an older ship, built for exploration and (I think i read somewhere) upper atmospheric cruising. It was just the first to respond.
I think of Constitutions as large multi-role ships designed to operate primarily on long duties without escorts or task forces where they could be required to do many things. Maybe by the TOS Movie era the role had changed and was justification for the dramatic refits. Perhaps they did not revisit the concept again until the Galaxy Class decades later.
I think of Constitutions as large multi-role ships designed to operate primarily on long duties without escorts or task forces where they could be required to do many things. Maybe by the TOS Movie era the role had changed and was justification for the dramatic refits. Perhaps they did not revisit the concept again until the Galaxy Class decades later.
Doesn't count! He then corrected himself afterwards, so canonically, the Enterprise is not in fact a garbage scow but rather should be hauled away as garbage.iirc somebody classifies her as a garbage scow onscreen
Particularly as it's referred to as a heavy cruiser or battlecruiser (at minimum very similar things) at various points, perhaps most notably in Search for Spock.
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