Spoilers Star Trek: Prodigy 1x01/02 - "Lost and Found"

[Tim Thomason]

Given the experimental nature of the Protostar (which would suggest an advanced propulsion system among other things - and most likely how it ended up in the DQ), how long could the premise with the kids being in charge of the Protostar last before it actually RETURNS to the Federation?

Granted, it may take a couple of years for holo Janeway to train them up in Protostar functions (so they can unlock its full potential) and UFP principles and ideals.

And if 'Captain Chakotay' will make a debut (which has been said)... it would suggest the Protostar will at least get in touch with UFP this season (I think) and the kids could end up communicating with him as an official liasion (with holo Janeway in the mix) - at least before Admiral Janeway makes a debut at some point.
Unless Chakotay left the Federation and became an independent captain that's not part of Starfleet... which is possible, but would seem like a potential step back for him given all the work he did with Janeway in the DQ.



I was also giving something else more thought.
What if the Protostar did get to the DQ via an experimental propulsion technology, BUT also had temporal mishap in the mix?
This could also explain existence of AQ aliens (beyond the Caretaker kidnapping AQ transport ships) and kids/teens specifically who have 0 knowledge of the Federation (the Protostar crew having kids of their own and overall knowledge being lost over time) and how the Diviner (whose origins remain unknown) spent 'all these years' looking for the Protostar.

The sentence 'all these years' seems a bit too long for something as relatively 'short' as say 3 or 4 years (if the Protostar disappeared about a year or two after Voyager returned). A decade or two on the other hand is more plausible (but that would well predate the Protostar's launch - and the Diviner had to have some kind of inside info on the ship which would make it of particular interest to him).

The Diviner's daughter is a teen (I think)... and unless she has a very fast maturation cycle (which I admit is more than possible given that Ktarians mature at least 50% faster than Humans), I find it unlikely she was born on that prison colony - but then again, we know nothing of that species or their maturation cycle.

Btw... anyone else notice the Protostar's bridge has a striking resemblence to the Delta Flyer canopy?

This season is one long story, so assuming they're not BS'ing us with the 2383 date, then they'll probably be pursued separately by Chakotay and the Diviner, while Dal thinks of ways not to go the Federation and the others find allies and take down the Diviner and his prison camp.

The end of the season will have them catch up with the Federation (maybe even go to Earth itself), and next season will shake things up... either with them fleeing with the Protostar, or perhaps getting a chaperone (please not Chakotay) onboard as they use it for some noble purpose (restoring the Vau N'Akat? Returning Dal to his people?) that will take up Season 2.

 

[Deks]

This season is one long story, so assuming they're not BS'ing us with the 2383 date, then they'll probably be pursued separately by Chakotay and the Diviner, while Dal thinks of ways not to go the Federation and the others find allies and take down the Diviner and his prison camp.

The end of the season will have them catch up with the Federation (maybe even go to Earth itself), and next season will shake things up... either with them fleeing with the Protostar, or perhaps getting a chaperone (please not Chakotay) onboard as they use it for some noble purpose (restoring the Vau N'Akat? Returning Dal to his people?) that will take up Season 2.

Hm... the Diviner's daughter seems more like the type who would not want to go to the Federation (and would probably take more convincing than others - the Diviner was particularly worried about her being influenced by UFP).

Dal strikes me more as a person who would probably try to defy orders... and in my head, I kinda ended up thinking Rok-Tok could end up being in charge (not Dal)... or possibly Zero... Murph... too soon to tell quite frankly since he/she/it still isn't talking (but I DID found it interesting Murph pressed the right buttons to activate phasers [which admittedly DID seem a bit predictable - but there is a way to work around that... by establishing that Murph DOES in fact have some knowledge of UFP and Starfleet, or it may have been part of the Protostar original crew).

Also, upon more consideration, I can definitely see the kids on the Protostar in the second season even after making contact with the Federation and getting a full crew... however, I would find it very unlikely that SF would allow kids to command their seemingly highly advanced and experimental starship (unless of course Admiral Janeway would have pulled some strings to keep them on board after consulting with her training hologram version... or possibly Admiral Janeway herself would command the Protostar and continue the kids training - but that would detract from the holo Janeway which the writers might want to keep in the mix - unless when the ship gets back to UFP, holo Janweway will be upgraded with command subroutines so she can captain the ship (much like the Doctor was programmed to be ECH) and resume the kids training... that way, Starfleet resumes having an experienced SF officer and gives the ship a proper/new crew which might include cadets from the Academy itself.

Though, this could just as easily also end up with Chakotay as a flesh and blood captain being transferred to the Protostar as its captain and the kids training resuming with holo Janeway and a full crew of young trainees (SF cadets to be).

It will be interesting to see how the show evolves... and it certainly has potential.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Alex Kurtzman's goal from Star Trek 2009 onward was to make Star Trek into Star Wars.
Alex Kurtzman finally achieved his goal.

Across the Internet, YouTube reviews, written reviews, from dedicated Star Trek websites to CNN, comment sections, forums, Reddit, people are saying Prodigy is "inspired" by Star Wars/Clone Wars/Rebels.

Ironic.

What these people don't realize is that they are agreeing with a central premise of NuTrek critics and what they have said all along:
NuTrek is Star Trek in name only. NuTrek is generic space-action in the style of Star Wars.

Was it??
Star Trek has alway been pretty flexible. It can do pew pew action and “thoughtful “ commentary. Sometimes simultaneously.
NuTrek is Star Trek.
Star Trek is inspired by and inspires a lot of things. It wasn’t created in nor does it exist in a vacuum.

 

[Deks]

Alex Kurtzman's goal from Star Trek 2009 onward was to make Star Trek into Star Wars.
Alex Kurtzman finally achieved his goal.

Across the Internet, YouTube reviews, written reviews, from dedicated Star Trek websites to CNN, comment sections, forums, Reddit, people are saying Prodigy is "inspired" by Star Wars/Clone Wars/Rebels.

Ironic.

What these people don't realize is that they are agreeing with a central premise of NuTrek critics and what they have said all along:
NuTrek is Star Trek in name only. NuTrek is generic space-action in the style of Star Wars.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Star Wars actually drew from Trek rather than the other way around considering that TOS was created first.
It was subsequently confirmed by Star Wars producers that Trek was a heavy influence on Lucas and the Star Wars films.

Also, the animated series to date have upheld certain aspects of Trek canon that the live action never bothered with and maintained various details (brought them out).

In regards to Prodigy looking like Star Wars animated series... well, to be fair, I've never seen the Wars animated series in full... only tidbits... and I will agree the art style is VERY similar - but we have to keep in mind that apparently, Wars animated series was seemingly quite popular, so its possible a similar art style was chosen for Prodigy to try and bring in the younger (and other) audiences.
I don't mind the art style (I guess its one aspect of Wars I don't particularly mind - and to me, Prodigy looks quite visually stunning)... also its not like Trek was entirely original in itself... so shows borrowing certain styles from different frachises is hardly uncommon.

As for NuTrek being more on the action heavy side like Star Wars... the Kelvin movies perhaps (Discovery and Picard probably as well), but to be fair, prime timeline movies also heavily leaned towards action (except perhaps ST IV which I definitely enjoyed and ST VI) - but we can attribute this to Hollywood mentality - it was the series that usually went with the more exploration/diplomacy style, and I personally enjoyed that, but seeing that emphasis in the modern movies would have been nice too).

Considering the DQ is not exactly the most friendliest of quadrants in the Galaxy, there is at least 'some' precedent for more action oriented stories in the Trek universe.

Personally, I'd definitely prefer more science/exploration oriented series with 'some' action in place. I also wouldn't mind seeing scientific and technological evolution of the UFP in action as well and the crews developing new technologies and science which are later actively applied on a regular basis (and not just use and forget or just a mild mention as a filler) with stories that are written to accomodate advanced technology.

But Prodigy is still a new series, and given how it was set up, the action we saw was more or less unavoidable and to be fair, very much on par with other Trek series to date... so I'd be inclined to give it more time to see if it delivers on Roddenberry's vision... thus far, I liked what I saw.

 

[Deks]

Thank you for the correction!

‪‪You’re right, ‪‪‪I had forgotten it was established in season three that they had the Discovery listed as destroyed. I was misremembering, based on recalling the way it was stated in the finale of season two.

“Therefore, to insure the Federation never finds itself facing the same danger, all officers remaining with knowledge of these events must be ordered never to speak of Discovery, its spore drive, or her crew again.”

The portion specifying to “never to speak of Discovery again,” had led me to believe at the time of the finale that the ship itself had been classified, and I over-generalized with the Glenn because of its spore drive.

Thanks again for the fact check!

I wouldn't worry about it too much... but you're welcome.

At any rate, I still don't see why classifying the Spore Drive would have been deemed necessary by Spock since its invention and use predate Control (whose main interest in the Sphere Data lied with its AI evolution - which to me seemed somewhat reduntant and utterly unnecessary because Control ALREADY was well evolved AI which continued to evolve at exponential pace - but the fact it wanted to destroy all life in the galaxy also never made any sense and I was sad to see Trek going into that direction).

 

[Deks]

This season is one long story, so assuming they're not BS'ing us with the 2383 date, then they'll probably be pursued separately by Chakotay and the Diviner, while Dal thinks of ways not to go the Federation and the others find allies and take down the Diviner and his prison camp.

I don't think we are being misled with the 2383 date, but to be fair, we also don't have an official (canonical) confirmation as to WHEN the series is taking place... 5 years is MORE than enough time for SF to modify the Protostar with technologies VOY brought back from the DQ and subsequently have the Protostar vanish (which could have happened only a year after Voyager's return).

When you consider the fact VOY crew was able to create (with smaller resources) a superior version of the Quantum slipstream technology only 4 to 6 months after encountering it, think of what SF could do with the resources of all 150 member worlds and proverbial cluster of supercomputers that trump the processing power of USS Voyager alone?
The number of technological and scientific breakthroughs they could develop in just 1 year is astounding (and something the writers never fully explored).

Just look at how fast algorithms can find solutions to problems or develop new strategies, technologies and science in real life compared to humans. We're talking about acceleration of acceleration and exponential developments.

UFP would be evolving FAR faster considering how many species in UFP there are, the socio-economic system they have and the fact their technology is radically more advanced than ours (though I'm not particularly inclined to think that some Trek writers are taking that into account).

At any rate, having the Protostar equipped with advanced technology and having it vanish mere 12 months (or even 18 to 24) after Voyager got back is certainly workable.

 

[cooleddie74]

Think about how quickly the TNG Era Starfleet went from - based largely on what we'd seen - older classes still in service in very large numbers with the new cutting-edge starship classes in far shorter supply to designing and constructing the Defiant-class vessel by 2366. Just two years earlier our view of Starfleet on TNG was of mostly late 23rd and early 24th century ship designs still being pressed into long-term service for both exploratory science and defense.

By 2366 we had the Defiant and by 2371 Voyager, a ship designed to reduce the stresses of warp drives on the fabric of subspace following discoveries made in 2370. Starfleet and Federation science move fast when they want, so the Protostar existing just five years after Voyager returns from the Delta Quadrant doesn't surprise me.

 

[fireproof78]

Think about how quickly the TNG Era Starfleet went from - based largely on what we'd seen - older classes still in service in very large numbers with the new cutting-edge starship classes in far shorter supply to designing and constructing the Defiant-class vessel by 2366. Just two years earlier our view of Starfleet on TNG was of mostly late 23rd and early 24th century ship designs still being pressed into long-term service for both exploratory science and defense.

By 2366 we had the Defiant and by 2371 Voyager, a ship designed to reduce the stresses of warp drives on the fabric of subspace following discoveries made in 2370. Starfleet and Federation science move fast when they want, so the Protostar existing just five years after Voyager returns from the Delta Quadrant doesn't surprise me.

Tech development moves at the speed of the plot. I have no issue with the Protostar being a nearly developed ship, especially if someone like Tom or Harry (not Dick though, for obvious reasons) could whip up the Delta Flyer with only Voyager's resources then such a ship would be a relatively simple feat. I imagine the Janeway hologram was Tom's finishing touches, with the Doctor's help.

 

[Nerys Myk]

if someone like Tom or Harry (not Dick though, for obvious reasons)

Little know fact, Chakotay's first name is "Richard".

 

[Harpsichord]

I think there might be some temporal shenanigans going on with the Protostar. If Gwyn has truly never left the mining colony in 17 years that means the Diviner has been searching for the ship since 2366.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Holo-Janeway even shows the USS Discovery with the other "hero ships" to the kids when they ask about the Federation.

When did she do that?

 

[cooleddie74]

It might be spoiler material but it's in images made public from an upcoming episode, possibly the one dropping this week.

 

[Tim Thomason]

It might be spoiler material but it's in images made public from an upcoming episode, possibly the one dropping this week.

It's in the Sneak Peek from The Ready Room for episode 2.

 

[cooleddie74]

Good. Then I don't have to feel guilty talking about it.

 

[Deks]

I think there might be some temporal shenanigans going on with the Protostar. If Gwyn has truly never left the mining colony in 17 years that means the Diviner has been searching for the ship since 2366.

My thinking is similar, but thus far, pure speculation.
We know from TNG that Federation ships were fully equipped with temporal technology by the 26th century - or at least, existence of historical scolars existed who studied the past with some highly impressive temporal technology.

Its possible the Protostar (in addition to the advanced propulsion systems) was modified so it could test an early prototype of temporal technology which was slated to be put into mainstream use at some later point... so I wouldn't be surprised if the early/mid 25th century was when UFP started using temporal tech throughout the fleet.

If the Protostar experienced an accident which caused the ship to end up in the DQ (close enough to Kazon space) because of the propulsion system interacted with temporal tech and threw the ship 20 years (or more) into the past prior to its launch... that could explain to us the existence of AQ species in the DQ (aside from the Caretaker), the fact Gwyn is 17 years old and never left the prison colony, and the line 'all these years' (which seems too imply a large passage of time contrasted to the fact the events take place only 5 years after VOY returned home).

Developing the needed advanced technology to integrate onto the Protostar in 1 or 2 years is not an oddity... its in fact more than likely... its the other 3 or 4 years which don't mesh with 'all these years' line, how old Gwyn is, or the AQ kids who don't know anything about the Federation.

Say what you will about temporal schenanigans, but the UFP is starting to move into active experimentation and eventual mastery of time at this point in its history... so early attempts are likely fraught with 'problems'... so this being the case for the Protostar wouldn't surprise me... and it actually preserves what we learned thus far of UFP development.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Yeah, I have no issue with the Protostar's technology with what we've seen so far. It fits fine as a 2380s ship, especially a prototype taking advantage of what was learned in Voyager (it's also helpful that we see so little of Starfleet in Picard).

The reason I think it might be later, much later, is due to the implied presence of Federation encroachment into Delta Quadrant space, and it apparently being buried for "years" (what I interpret as decades) and searched by the Diviner, who may have had the colony for Gwyn's entire living memory.

But, like you said, temporal shenanigans might be at play.

 

[DaveyNY]

Given the experimental nature of the Protostar (which would suggest an advanced propulsion system among other things - and most likely how it ended up in the DQ), how long could the premise with the kids being in charge of the Protostar last before it actually RETURNS to the Federation?

Granted, it may take a couple of years for holo Janeway to train them up in Protostar functions (so they can unlock its full potential) and UFP principles and ideals.

And if 'Captain Chakotay' will make a debut (which has been said)... it would suggest the Protostar will at least get in touch with UFP this season (I think) and the kids could end up communicating with him as an official liasion (with holo Janeway in the mix) - at least before Admiral Janeway makes a debut at some point.
Unless Chakotay left the Federation and became an independent captain that's not part of Starfleet... which is possible, but would seem like a potential step back for him given all the work he did with Janeway in the DQ.



I was also giving something else more thought.
What if the Protostar did get to the DQ via an experimental propulsion technology, BUT also had temporal mishap in the mix?
This could also explain existence of AQ aliens (beyond the Caretaker kidnapping AQ transport ships) and kids/teens specifically who have 0 knowledge of the Federation (the Protostar crew having kids of their own and overall knowledge being lost over time) and how the Diviner (whose origins remain unknown) spent 'all these years' looking for the Protostar.

The sentence 'all these years' seems a bit too long for something as relatively 'short' as say 3 or 4 years (if the Protostar disappeared about a year or two after Voyager returned). A decade or two on the other hand is more plausible (but that would well predate the Protostar's launch - and the Diviner had to have some kind of inside info on the ship which would make it of particular interest to him).

The Diviner's daughter is a teen (I think)... and unless she has a very fast maturation cycle (which I admit is more than possible given that Ktarians mature at least 50% faster than Humans), I find it unlikely she was born on that prison colony - but then again, we know nothing of that species or their maturation cycle.

Btw... anyone else notice the Protostar's bridge has a striking resemblance to the Delta Flyer canopy?

I think as soon as they powered up the ship, it automatically sent a signal/message back to Star Fleet HQ to indicate where it is.
That could be why Chakotay comes looking for it.

 

[jackoverfull]

Another thought about the temporal shenanigans: why is the Diviner called the diviner?

If he is someone from a future time he would be able to divine upcoming events, thus being worthy of such name!

 

[JoaquinSlowly]

Another thought about the temporal shenanigans: why is the Diviner called the diviner?

If he is someone from a future time he would be able to divine upcoming events, thus being worthy of such name!

Very plausible! ‪‪I had thought of diviner in the sense of those who were said to be able to divine/detect the location of water, minerals, and precious items underground, since Solum is searching for the Protostar, but possessing future knowledge seems very likely as well!

 

[dupersuper]

^^ Pog's a Tellarite, Zero's a Medusan and of course, Janeway is a holo-human...

Also, the Brikar, Caitian, Lurian...

This episode with the Medusan made me go back and watch "Is there in truth no beauty" for the first time in like 20 years, and I was reminded why I did not watch the episode in 20 years. The Medusans make humans go insane because they are ugly.

That...was never my take on it.

It get's "hate" because a section of fandom is short sighted, unimaginative, conservative, hide bound and suffers from tunnel vision.

I'd never consider Discovery non-canon, but it also gets hate because some of us just prefer the old aesthetic and because the random changes to the Enterprise takes us out of the show...no need to get so tetchy...