Stargirl Season 2 - Discussion ( Spoiler Warning)

[Commander Troi]

I might have watch this one again to catch everything!

I loved the opening with Sly and Pat. But yeah, how old IS Pat?!?!

Hmm, shame that for the Shade to heal he had to lie to the team and seemingly betray them but they definitely need him at full strength. I wonder if we'll see Court meet McNider as well as Cindy. And maybe the Shade can pop into the Shadow Realm as well to guide them out? Although one wonders why he hasn't helped McNider get out, if that's something he can do.

Really cool to get hints and more-than-hints about future direction. I'm sure we'll see more to do with Todd, and I wonder if they're actually going to show Mr. Bones... and if he's actually going to look like he does in the comics.

Noted a reference to Green Arrow and Speedy on the wall by the way as past JSA members, so it's yet more clear that this is a different world than the rest of the Arrowverse.

I wonder if Shade is just so used to lying it didn't occur to him to tell them he needed healing? Of course, since it also meant calling Eclipso collect, that could be why. Still, I think his little act had a touch of truth - Emily probably was his sister.

I don't think Shade knows McNider is in there. I got the impression he thinks McNider is dead. But... I could be wrong.

I like Beth's new self-confidence! I'm also glad we got background on Shade. I assume McNider came through clearer because of the proximity of Shade and/or the Shadowlands.

It was great seeing Jenny get closer to finding Todd. I squeaked when I heard Mister Bones' name! I honestly never thought they'd put him in here. The nurse's name was Love - which was the name of the doctor who was responsible for Bones and the other members of Helix. Nice name-drop on the "Helix Group".

I loved Mike's "of course it is" reaction to the candy house!

I caught the Green Arrow and Speedy clipping on the wall too.

I miss Yolanda.

Ditto!

The fashion.

The nurse uniforms at the hospital.

The mixture of old and new tech.

Is it possible that every one takes an immortality pill once a day, once they have matured, and it's no big deal?

LOL! Wouldn't that be nice?

 

[Nerys Myk]

The hospital, the nurse's name and of course Mr. Bones are references to Infinity Inc's foes The Helix.

Yolanda was also product of the experiments that gave them powers. (By Dr. Love)

 

[StCoop]

With Joel McHale becoming part of the regular cast next season, I'm hoping they'll deal with the whole ageing situation then.

Last year it was subtle enough to be missed but it's been pretty hard to ignore this time.

 

[thribs]

That was a good episode but they didn't explain why there were two Shade locations. I suppose that is next week.
I hope that isn't the last we see of him. The actor who played him was awesome. I would do a miniseries about him,

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Well that episode was quite a ride.

Dr. Midnight back in action, and due to the Shadowlands hasn't aged a day (at least from his youthful appearance.)

The Shade goes out a true hero.

Cindy may have redemption.

Courtney's learned a thing or two.

With the Staff still crippled, next ep would be a good time for Pemberton to finally get into town.

I have a feeling Eclipso is in for it now.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Cindy doesn't want redemption.

And these feebs offering it to her, might just create a rage strong enough to kill everyone.

 

[theenglish]

I agree that this was a fun episode and filled with lots and lots of Easter Eggs. When I was a kid I loved Earth 2. The characters were so special because they appeared rarely. I collected everything I could find at the time and remember reading about the Seven Soldiers in one of those digest reprints. But I stopped reading shortly after Infinity Inc appeared so I'm not really familiar with those characters as much other than Jade and Obsidian who were still appearing when I got back into comics in the 00s. In short, I loved all the little Easter Eggs in this episode--but for me, Beth's opening was great. I loved the conversation with her parents.

 

[The Habs Fan]

Excellent episode. Everything in the shadowlands was great and I was surprised when Dr. McNider returned. Seems he’ll be part of the team going forward. I wonder if Cindy will have a full redemption or go back to her villainous ways once Eclipso is defeated.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I'm curious where they'll go with Cindy. Given that they've devoted so much to the trauma with taking a life I assume they aren't going to go with something as pat (no pun...) as having Cindy do the deed.

 

[Christopher]

It was appropriately heroic that Courtney risked losing her own shot at escape by searching for Cindy... but then they undermined it at the end by having Courtney rush out first and then Charles following, with neither of them waiting to make sure Cindy got out. That was a poor directorial choice. They should've all come through together.

Also, if McNider never takes off the goggles and they only show him the truth of the shadowy void... how the heck did he know what Courtney was perceiving? Let alone be able to sit down in the imaginary garage?

That was a good episode but they didn't explain why there were two Shade locations. I suppose that is next week.

Yeah, definitely foreshadowing something (no pun intended).

 

[Mr. Adventure]

It was appropriately heroic that Courtney risked losing her own shot at escape by searching for Cindy... but then they undermined it at the end by having Courtney rush out first and then Charles following, with neither of them waiting to make sure Cindy got out. That was a poor directorial choice. They should've all come through together.

I thought that was a bit odd as well and it would add to the tension if Courtney would make it out. It makes some sense logically that you'd want Cindy to go last lest she do something when through to mess up the transfer for the rest though that goes against Courtney's good heart.

 

[LaxScrutiny]

I wonder if Cindy will have a full redemption or go back to her villainous ways once Eclipso is defeated.

What struck me was that Cindy was yelling "No!" when her mum and younger self appeared, knowing what was about to happen. She went to her mum bleeding out with genuine tears and genuine sorrow. And here's the thing that made it mean something: Her mum forgave her. Eclipso means these scenes to be events of torture. Cindy has been carrying this inside her for years, and acting out as being evil because that is how she saw herself. Her mum's forgiveness came out of her, not Eclipso's manipulation. She is finally forgiving herself, certainly realizing that she did something heinous that needs forgiving.

I see her going forward as a morally grey character. I do think she is willing to kill, but I think she's had enough of terror and torture to want any more part of those. I don't think she is redeemed yet, she still has to do something selfless. I do think she is now capable of it. Shade's selflessness in this episode reminded us that it's possible.

This season has been about the characters evolving and taking the next step after surviving Eclipso. Yolanda and Rick still need to get through it and out of it. I can't see the point of witnessing Cindy go through it and not have her grow, maybe into someone more like Shade.

 

[Tuskin38]

I see her going forward as a morally grey character. I do think she is willing to kill, but I think she's had enough of terror and torture to want any more part of those. I don't think she is redeemed yet, she still has to do something selfless. I do think she is now capable of it. Shade's selflessness in this episode reminded us that it's possible.

This is what I'm thinking as well.

 

[CaptainWacky]

Seriously though, that kid playing Eclipso is so creepy.

 

[theenglish]

I really enjoyed this episode as well. Still love Beth. Cindy's story was well done and I think she has changed as well--up to a point at least.

I too thought it was an odd choice with Courtney, Cindy, and McNider leaving the shadow realm--but I believe the intention was to create suspense. We all know that Courtney was going to make it back but the other two characters could have remained trapped. What was more disturbing to me was after they made it back to the theater. Courtney and Midnight were both welcomed back emotionally and Cindy was practically forgotten. You couldn't even see her on camera in the background. I was beginning to think that Cindy had escaped. But maybe that was the point to; we were supposed to wonder at what her reaction was going to be.

 

[Guy Gardener]

What if Cindy and Courtney hook up?

They were both into Cameron.

Maybe a throuple?

Girl Meets World on Disney had Throuple years ago, so it's not like we are breaking any fresh taboos, meanwhile She-Ra and Katra hooked up in the last episode of their show, which has any same person wonder is Skeketor was into He-Man as well all along.

 

[Christopher]

I too thought it was an odd choice with Courtney, Cindy, and McNider leaving the shadow realm--but I believe the intention was to create suspense. We all know that Courtney was going to make it back but the other two characters could have remained trapped.

But that's not how suspense works. It should be the character we care about the most who's in the most danger of not returning. What "we all know" is metatextual and you're not supposed to think about it in the moment while you're experiencing the scene. After all, "we all know" these are just actors reciting scripted dialogue on a set, so the only way to buy into the stakes at all is to suspend disbelief and ignore our real-world knowledge. What matters is not what you know, but what you feel -- your identification with the reactions and fears of the characters who don't know how the story will turn out. Nobody in that scene cared as much about Cindy as they cared about Courtney, so Courtney's escape should've been last to build the most suspense.

Imagine the added drama if Pat and Barbara had seen Cindy come through alone without the others and been afraid that Cindy had done something to Courtney. And then someone else starts to come through, and it's McNider, and they still don't know. The biggest, most urgent question for them was whether their daughter was safe. Answering that question first made it too easy and reduced the others' escape to an afterthought. They got it completely backward.

What was more disturbing to me was after they made it back to the theater. Courtney and Midnight were both welcomed back emotionally and Cindy was practically forgotten. You couldn't even see her on camera in the background. I was beginning to think that Cindy had escaped. But maybe that was the point to; we were supposed to wonder at what her reaction was going to be.

Even worse, Courtney was obliviously standing there with her back toward the psychopath who had repeatedly tried to kill her, as recently as about half an hour earlier. That's just dumb, even after saving her life.

 

[Commander Troi]

I agree the escape would have been better with Courtney 2nd or last back. But what's been bothering me is that McNider didn't seem blind or visually impaired. Yes, the goggles. But... maybe I'm seeing what ain't there (no pun intended).

Cindy is a wonderfully complex character and I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with her. Kudos to Meg DeLacy!

I'm guessing the other Shade reading is either an Eclipso trap or maybe... Todd?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

The approach they took made me nervous on a meta level that Cindy might not make it out. I could believe that Cindy might end up trapped behind the veil as we see stuff like that happen. So in that sense for me as an audience member it was more suspenseful.

On a story level, it would make sense for Courtney to emerge last to see the emotions of the characters rise and I suppose the argument is that if suspension of disbelief is working well so will the audience's.

 

[Christopher]

But what's been bothering me is that McNider didn't seem blind or visually impaired.

Traditionally, McNider is blind in the light but can see clearly in the dark. So far we've only seen him in the Shadowlands and in a relatively dark movie theater.

The approach they took made me nervous on a meta level that Cindy might not make it out. I could believe that Cindy might end up trapped behind the veil as we see stuff like that happen. So in that sense for me as an audience member it was more suspenseful.

Surely our emotional engagement with the characters matters more than dispassionate calculations of probability, though. I mean, would we really care if Cindy didn't get out? With Courtney or Charles, even if we know objectively that they'll probably get out, surely it matters more to us that they get out, so it's still an anticlimax to save Cindy for last.