Meh for me, and way too long, and not one i would ever bother watching again if i'm honest.
Spoilers No Time to Die - Grading & Discussion
- Thread starter Commander Richard
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Gave it a 2, honestly worst bond movie almost ever for me.
Villian was, well, generic villian #4, anybody could have played him, kind of like Nero in Star Trek, Useless. Deux Ex Machina was Blah, the reason wasn't really explained.. just.. ugh sucky writing..
EVERYONE dying was a bit of a pisser, Jeffery Wright's screen time as Felix could be counted on one hand..(Whole Craig Series worth!!)
The new 007 had the charisma of a Oak board
Bond being an absent dad for 5 years, then, well gone the rest pissed me off, hate it when they do that, Oh you have a kid! Ta Da!! Crappy writing crutch.
Only thing,.. ONLY THING was Ana's appearance.. SHE WAS MAGNIFICENT!!
Now look for the next 007 movie will be the new one.. Ugh.. James will probably be retired for the next set of movies.. I mean they could have done a spinoff series with the new girl, but.. Hope the lousy box office will show.. We watch it for James Bond..
Villian was, well, generic villian #4, anybody could have played him, kind of like Nero in Star Trek, Useless. Deux Ex Machina was Blah, the reason wasn't really explained.. just.. ugh sucky writing..
EVERYONE dying was a bit of a pisser, Jeffery Wright's screen time as Felix could be counted on one hand..(Whole Craig Series worth!!)
The new 007 had the charisma of a Oak board
Bond being an absent dad for 5 years, then, well gone the rest pissed me off, hate it when they do that, Oh you have a kid! Ta Da!! Crappy writing crutch.
Only thing,.. ONLY THING was Ana's appearance.. SHE WAS MAGNIFICENT!!
Now look for the next 007 movie will be the new one.. Ugh.. James will probably be retired for the next set of movies.. I mean they could have done a spinoff series with the new girl, but.. Hope the lousy box office will show.. We watch it for James Bond..
Just got back from watching it and I absolutely loved it. No Time to Die is the perfect ending, both for the Craig era and as a classic Bond run, with a conclusion that is absolutely definitive.
I genuinely wasn't sure how the film would bring back Craig's Bond from the brink after he completely walked away at the end of Spectre. He has walked away before, but that was always during the film and never at the end. Even after the extended opening (that had to be the longest pre-credits sequence, right?), I wasn't sure what would bring Bond back into the fold after his heart was broken by Madeline's apparent betrayal (I figured she hadn't betrayed him but we still had to go through the motions).
So in an odd kind of way, it makes sense that it was Felix that lured him out of self-imposed retirement and not Bond's old MI6 comrades. Even though this was going to be the final Craig cast film, it still hurt to see Felix die and at the hands of one of his compatriots. I clung onto hope that he might survive the gunshot wound, but when the ship started sinking, I knew he was a goner.
Despite being the final Craig film, they still managed to create two new iconic characters. Her screen time was limited (which I figured going in based on the trailers), but the always charming Ana de Almas was absolutely adorkable every second she was on the screen. Perhaps less is more and there was no real in-story reason to keep her around, but I surely wished we had gotten to see more of Paloma. Spin-off, please!
The other new iconic character, of course, is Lashana Lynch's Nomi. She likewise stole every scene she was in and I loved how formidable of a 007 agent she was, even having a semi-rivalry with Bond when he finally returned, before finally developing respect for him by the end. I know it'll never happen, but I really want Lynch to take over the series. She won't be James Bond but I want her leading her own series of films.
All that said, the centerpiece of the film was Bond and his relationship with Madeline. My heart broke when he thrusted her away and then we got that five-year jump. I greatly enjoyed how the relationship turned throughout the film, dealing with all of the secrets between each other (even if I wasn't convinced of the gravity of Swann's secrets as Blofeld tried to import, but I guess that was him just trying to get under Bond's skin), but finally reconciling because of their child (even if Madeline initially denied Mathilde was his...but come on, of course she was his daughter!). Which made Safin's final twisting of the knife all that more heartbreaking. I nearly cursed out loud when I realized he poisoned Bond with the nanobots to prevent him from being close to them. I had already figured he was going to got out in a blaze of sacrificial glory when the blast doors closed up, but that was just awful!
This is a tentative ranking and it could very well change on repeated showings:
1. Casino Royale
2. Skyfall
3. No Time to Die
4. Quantum of Solace
5. Spectre
I have to point out that after my Craig-athon the last two days, I found myself enjoying Spectre a lot more this time around then I had the first two times. Yeah, it has its flaws but not that much more than the rest of the Craig films. So the fact that it's listed last doesn't mean I didn't like it. Likewise Quantum of Solace which I've always thought got a bum rap.
I genuinely wasn't sure how the film would bring back Craig's Bond from the brink after he completely walked away at the end of Spectre. He has walked away before, but that was always during the film and never at the end. Even after the extended opening (that had to be the longest pre-credits sequence, right?), I wasn't sure what would bring Bond back into the fold after his heart was broken by Madeline's apparent betrayal (I figured she hadn't betrayed him but we still had to go through the motions).
So in an odd kind of way, it makes sense that it was Felix that lured him out of self-imposed retirement and not Bond's old MI6 comrades. Even though this was going to be the final Craig cast film, it still hurt to see Felix die and at the hands of one of his compatriots. I clung onto hope that he might survive the gunshot wound, but when the ship started sinking, I knew he was a goner.
Despite being the final Craig film, they still managed to create two new iconic characters. Her screen time was limited (which I figured going in based on the trailers), but the always charming Ana de Almas was absolutely adorkable every second she was on the screen. Perhaps less is more and there was no real in-story reason to keep her around, but I surely wished we had gotten to see more of Paloma. Spin-off, please!
The other new iconic character, of course, is Lashana Lynch's Nomi. She likewise stole every scene she was in and I loved how formidable of a 007 agent she was, even having a semi-rivalry with Bond when he finally returned, before finally developing respect for him by the end. I know it'll never happen, but I really want Lynch to take over the series. She won't be James Bond but I want her leading her own series of films.
All that said, the centerpiece of the film was Bond and his relationship with Madeline. My heart broke when he thrusted her away and then we got that five-year jump. I greatly enjoyed how the relationship turned throughout the film, dealing with all of the secrets between each other (even if I wasn't convinced of the gravity of Swann's secrets as Blofeld tried to import, but I guess that was him just trying to get under Bond's skin), but finally reconciling because of their child (even if Madeline initially denied Mathilde was his...but come on, of course she was his daughter!). Which made Safin's final twisting of the knife all that more heartbreaking. I nearly cursed out loud when I realized he poisoned Bond with the nanobots to prevent him from being close to them. I had already figured he was going to got out in a blaze of sacrificial glory when the blast doors closed up, but that was just awful!
This is a tentative ranking and it could very well change on repeated showings:
1. Casino Royale
2. Skyfall
3. No Time to Die
4. Quantum of Solace
5. Spectre
I have to point out that after my Craig-athon the last two days, I found myself enjoying Spectre a lot more this time around then I had the first two times. Yeah, it has its flaws but not that much more than the rest of the Craig films. So the fact that it's listed last doesn't mean I didn't like it. Likewise Quantum of Solace which I've always thought got a bum rap.
I did a timer on the pre-title sequence. Overall it was 24 minutes.
7 minutes for Madeleine’s prologue and 17 for the main Matera sequence.
7 minutes for Madeleine’s prologue and 17 for the main Matera sequence.
Watched last night, and thought it was great.
Never once did i look at my watch and wonder how long left, the run time was never an issue and flew past.
Interested to see where we go next, I like the current cast , M and Q, money penny...see no reason the same actors cannot be part of future bonds but still be standalone stories that dont refer back, they did it with Judi Dench after all.
Also, interesting to see a painting of Bernard Lee which sort of suggests this bond was part of the same continuity in a way as the other bonds, but then its probably just an easter egg slipped in and left open for fans to make their own minds up.
Continuity between films has happened before, Roger Moore visiting the grave of his wife for one.
Whoever comes in as bond is going to have some big shoes to fill. Maybe they will go with the code name angle but i hope not, I do seem to recall some rumoured movie in the 90's featuring all the bonds to date and using the code name angle as a method to get them all in the same movie.
I really dont know who i would pick as bond, in fairness i wouldnt have gone for Daniel Craig but he has been great, Henry Cavill certainly looks the part if you want a typical James Bond type look, but then so did Pierce Brosnan who i know was popular but was my least favourite bond. Part of me hopes its someone no one has even mentioned yet, doesnt even need to be a big name.
Never once did i look at my watch and wonder how long left, the run time was never an issue and flew past.
Interested to see where we go next, I like the current cast , M and Q, money penny...see no reason the same actors cannot be part of future bonds but still be standalone stories that dont refer back, they did it with Judi Dench after all.
Also, interesting to see a painting of Bernard Lee which sort of suggests this bond was part of the same continuity in a way as the other bonds, but then its probably just an easter egg slipped in and left open for fans to make their own minds up.
Continuity between films has happened before, Roger Moore visiting the grave of his wife for one.
Whoever comes in as bond is going to have some big shoes to fill. Maybe they will go with the code name angle but i hope not, I do seem to recall some rumoured movie in the 90's featuring all the bonds to date and using the code name angle as a method to get them all in the same movie.
I really dont know who i would pick as bond, in fairness i wouldnt have gone for Daniel Craig but he has been great, Henry Cavill certainly looks the part if you want a typical James Bond type look, but then so did Pierce Brosnan who i know was popular but was my least favourite bond. Part of me hopes its someone no one has even mentioned yet, doesnt even need to be a big name.
It was long wasnt it, to be honest i forgot we were even going to have titles. Great opening though.
As far as the music goes, Hans Zimmer's soundtrack only supports the film, never does it enhance it. The only real times it actually seems to come alive is when he cribs from the opening James Bond stinger theme, and the two times he adapts the much more memorable ''We have all the time in the World''.
It's like a bizarre aversion throughout to cut loose with bold trumpets, or any jazzy riffs...
I like Billie Eilish, but this wasn't a really great theme. In fact the ratio of ok/good to kinda poor has been noticeable since the Brosnan days. Cubby definitely had a much better ear for what made great theme songs
It's like a bizarre aversion throughout to cut loose with bold trumpets, or any jazzy riffs...
I like Billie Eilish, but this wasn't a really great theme. In fact the ratio of ok/good to kinda poor has been noticeable since the Brosnan days. Cubby definitely had a much better ear for what made great theme songs
You Know my Name is the best title track of the Craig era, followed by Skyfall, the rest have been meh.
@Evil Headhunter After Mathis you'd think Bond wouldn't automatically believe the bad guys when they said an ally was actually working for them!
Lynch was ok, she just got increasingly sidelined as the film went along I thought which was obviously going to happen. Glad she wasn't killed though, and glad she wasn't secretly Spectre all along (did worry when she turned up after the action in Norway)
I was sniffy about Seydoux in Spectre but I thought she was superb here.
NTTD has actually made Spectre drop in my estimation, if only because it retcons my personal head cannon (that it was Blofeld who young Madeline shot, dialogue in Spectre strongly implies this )
@Evil Headhunter After Mathis you'd think Bond wouldn't automatically believe the bad guys when they said an ally was actually working for them!
Lynch was ok, she just got increasingly sidelined as the film went along I thought which was obviously going to happen. Glad she wasn't killed though, and glad she wasn't secretly Spectre all along (did worry when she turned up after the action in Norway)
I was sniffy about Seydoux in Spectre but I thought she was superb here.
NTTD has actually made Spectre drop in my estimation, if only because it retcons my personal head cannon (that it was Blofeld who young Madeline shot, dialogue in Spectre strongly implies this )
Same, the past few movies, the music was "there" but not doing much. Bond films are usually more in your face with the music. Seemingly gone are the days of great soundtracks that you can listen to and follow the action in your head.
That painting was actually of Robert Brown. Who replaced Bernard Lee and came before Judi Dench in the position of M in the movies. Right next to her painting. Likely just as a tribute. But also a reminder there is a lineage in the casting of the supporting roles that has nothing to do with continuity.
I have mixed feelings about the film. I never been been overly enthusiastic about Daniel Craig’s films. Which is not based on him but some of the choices that have been made.
The questions now about - what happens next? Occurred to me already when Casino Royale first came out. The Bond movies never had any real continuity at all. Only with the occasional minor allusions to past movies. With each actor being their own version of the character. So it was clear in 2006 whomever replaced Craig it would feel no different than any other previous actor’s first film.
Unless.... they do a clear reboot again. Which is unneeded and unnecessary.
On this film itself. Too long. That is a general problem I have with most movies these days. I knew the major spoilers before hand. So it really felt like waiting for certain events to happen than being involved. There is little tension and no propulsion in events. The plot and villain are very weak. Which makes it feel really, really, long. It’s the character moments that work very well. But are undermined by the weak plot line that setups the emotional moments.
The callbacks to OHMSS where interesting. But a reminder of how much stronger that was Story wise. Conversely I wonder if it means anything to someone who does not know that movie. Nice hearing John Barry’s theme in connection to Blofeld.....maybe it should have been reintroduced in SPECTRE.
I have mixed feelings about the film. I never been been overly enthusiastic about Daniel Craig’s films. Which is not based on him but some of the choices that have been made.
The questions now about - what happens next? Occurred to me already when Casino Royale first came out. The Bond movies never had any real continuity at all. Only with the occasional minor allusions to past movies. With each actor being their own version of the character. So it was clear in 2006 whomever replaced Craig it would feel no different than any other previous actor’s first film.
Unless.... they do a clear reboot again. Which is unneeded and unnecessary.
On this film itself. Too long. That is a general problem I have with most movies these days. I knew the major spoilers before hand. So it really felt like waiting for certain events to happen than being involved. There is little tension and no propulsion in events. The plot and villain are very weak. Which makes it feel really, really, long. It’s the character moments that work very well. But are undermined by the weak plot line that setups the emotional moments.
The callbacks to OHMSS where interesting. But a reminder of how much stronger that was Story wise. Conversely I wonder if it means anything to someone who does not know that movie. Nice hearing John Barry’s theme in connection to Blofeld.....maybe it should have been reintroduced in SPECTRE.
Story was pretty weak, something a movie going audience get from the scripts from Purvis and Wade. I wasn't surprised at all Craig's Emo-Bond would get an ending such as that because he should've never been a OO. Doesn't even have the chops to be a father or a man, I wasn't surprised this Bond couldn't charm a child... which was his own and at least make her a good breakfast. F^cking useless human being of a character, nobody does it better was never in the Craig's Bond DNA. Not sure whether it's cinematically good to promote children not having a father in their life but once again I am getting a movie where I guess a woman can raise them on their own. Kind of sad, but heck we're STRONG!
Ah, thanks for that. I typically avoid looking at my phone (the only watch I have anymore) when at the cinema, even if it's a film I'm bored by. Hell, I didn't even realize the sequence was lengthy until the title sequence began. I hadn't even realized we hadn't gotten to it yet because I was so engrossed by the film at that point.
There's no reason why they can't return, I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if none of them do so. The film ended on a conclusive note for all of them so I imagine the next Bond era will begin on a clear slate.
And I say that as someone who wants Nomi as the lead of her own films as well as Paloma getting her own spin-off.
I forgot to mention the portraits in my review but I really loved that nice touch (although it was Robert Brown we saw and it's odd we didn't actually see Bernard Lee). To me, it was nothing but a respectful tribute to the past Ms and nothing more. Continuity has always been a wonky thing in the Bondverse and I've never worried myself about it, except for in the confines of each Bond era (particularly Craig's).[/QUOTE]
I gotta completely disagree with both of you on this one. I spent about a week listening to the score on Spotify before I even saw the film and really enjoyed every bit of it. I thought it enhanced the film nicely without feeling overbearing. I will say that it's not Zimmer's strongest score even for this year but that's partially because he also produced the breathtakingly gorgeous Dune score, too.
And I absolutely disagree on the notion that "days of great soundtracks" are gone. There are many great scores and soundtracks that enhance the narrative of their films without trying to dictate the narrative. I'm sorry such scores and soundtracks don't appeal for you, but that doesn't mean they aren't still being produced.
I agree that "You Know My Name" is the best title track of the Craig era but I've loved all of them except the sheer awfulness that is Sam Smith's "Spectre." I really, really, really wish they used Radiohead's version instead.
Old habits die hard and all of that. At least he later admitted that his one regret was pushing her away onto that train.
How weird, I just rewatched Spectre and I don't remember her referencing that. When did that moment happen?
I gotta completely disagree with both of you on this one. I spent about a week listening to the score on Spotify before I even saw the film and really enjoyed every bit of it. I thought it enhanced the film nicely without feeling overbearing. I will say that it's not Zimmer's strongest score even for this year but that's partially because he also produced the breathtakingly gorgeous Dune score, too.
And I absolutely disagree on the notion that "days of great soundtracks" are gone. There are many great scores and soundtracks that enhance the narrative of their films without trying to dictate the narrative. I'm sorry such scores and soundtracks don't appeal for you, but that doesn't mean they aren't still being produced.
I agree that "You Know My Name" is the best title track of the Craig era but I've loved all of them except the sheer awfulness that is Sam Smith's "Spectre." I really, really, really wish they used Radiohead's version instead.
Old habits die hard and all of that. At least he later admitted that his one regret was pushing her away onto that train.
How weird, I just rewatched Spectre and I don't remember her referencing that. When did that moment happen?[/QUOTE]
(On the train I think) Madeline explains to Bond that when she was a child a man came to her house to kill her father, but she knew there was a gun hidden and she used it.
Flash forward to the first meeting of the three (I'm paraphrasing a little here)
Blofeld: I came to your house once when you were small.
Madeline: I don't remember that.
Blofeld: I do.
Maybe it's me reading too much into it. It just feels like Blofeld is more interested in torturing Madeline than Bond (at least before 007 blows his face off!).
Ahhhh! I do remember those two individual moments now but I hadn't thought to connect them like that. I figured the latter scene was just Blofeld being snide to her, while I completely forgot the former happened until you mentioned it.
As I say it might be me reading too much into it, or it might be a holdover from Logan's original script. Why does Blofeld send Hinx to kidnap her? Why does Hinx attack them on the train? (The only thing that makes any sense, other than Hinx has gone rogue, is that he's there to kill 007 and capture her) why does he torture her by showing her father's death? Why does the main focus of his torture of Bond actually seem aimed at her?
Yeah, I was trying to puzzle all of that out while watching Spectre the most recent time. Your theory does make sense...until No Time to Die blew it up.
I hope for a full reboot and recast. I don’t have as much aversion to that as you guys seem to. But then again I honestly never expected Ben Whishaw and Ralph Fiennes to literally play their roles until they drop dead. Unlike Bernard Lee and Desmond Llewelyn they’re very prominent character actors that get a ton of other work and Bond is just another part of their career.
Same for Naomie Harris and even Rory Kinnear (albeit not on the same level as the other three and mostly on the television side of things).
If they want to do a spin off with the new 007 and Anna go for it.
but reboot and show James Bond from Commander getting recruited in earning his 00.
Proper prequel.
but reboot and show James Bond from Commander getting recruited in earning his 00.
Proper prequel.
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