Stargirl Season 2 - Discussion ( Spoiler Warning)

Her hair alone is a dead giveaway, especially in a small town in an era of social media. Even putting it in a pony tail would at least alter her silhouette. I've just decided to suspend my disbelief.

 

Glasses should do the trick.

 

Has Eclipso moved his way through the whole cast now? They've done a good job using the established character beats in his manipulations so that it feels organic. His attacks may not be "real" but the effects are and we've seen more reflections and aftereffects with the characters than we have in many of the actual ones not to mention chances for the actors to show their chops.

 

Sure, I get that, but the way it's being done just isn't working for me. I guess I'm not a fan of the slow creepy suspense thing. If they picked up the pace a little, instead of having all these long scenes of people looking around wondering if anyone's there or whatever, they could've gotten through all these character beats in fewer episodes. Just get on with it already! I'm not the kind of viewer who demands nonstop action, I'm fine with contemplative dramatic scenes, but this is too far in the other direction, just long stretches of quiet suspense over whether something's going to happen.

 

For awhile there, I thought the big twist was going to be that Pat was the one who ultimately killed Bruce Gordon, but I guess they didn't want to go that far.

 

I had the same suspicion. They did kind of take the easy way out by having both Pat and Jay be the ones to vote no (we may never have seen this incarnation of Jay Garrick before, but I guess they didn't want to make John Wesley Shipp look like the bad guy).

Here's what I don't get. They said killing the host would defeat Eclipso... but I thought Eclipso's host was Cindy, and she's gone. So does that mean she's not dead? Maybe she got sucked into the same shadow dimension as Dr. McNider?

Although I think the last person to touch the crystal was Mike. So maybe he's the host now and Stargirl will be faced with the choice of whether to kill her own stepbrother. Which obviously she won't, of course, but there would be some drama before they figured out another way.

 

Isn’t Eclipso free now? He doesn’t need a host

 

Oh, is that how it works? I'll take your word for it, but it seems odd. I mean, all this angst over killing the host being the only way to stop Eclipso feels like it's meant to set up Stargirl and her team having to face that same decision and finding another way. If they won't have to face that choice, then what was the narrative point of all this?

 

It wasn't just a lot of years; it was the 1950s. I have to assume at this point that they're taking the idea from the comics that the members of the JSA all age very slowly.

 

In numerous interviews this week John Wesley Shipp has referred to Jay Garrick as a man in his 90s who was exposed to something that prolonged his life and keep him looking younger than that. You can assume that he is taking that from the comics which has no baring on the show itself. But more and more the shows seems to be hinting to that too.

If the Stargirl wikia is accurate sometime in season 1 a reference to Dr Charles McNider joining the JSA in the 1940s.

This show is being guided by Geoff Johns. So pulling ideas directly from the comics is plausible.

 

Eclipso is *smart*. He manipulated all the kids into a fight just so Courtney would use the staff on the diamond, thereby letting him out without a host. Now we know why - a host leaves him vulnerable. He got hurt when everyone fought him as a team - so he's playing divide and conquer. I love villains who have brains!

I choose not to worry about ages. Music and clothes have been better clues to time periods on the show. However, did anyone else notice how much Joel towered over everyone?

I think it says something (good) about Pat's character that even though he wasn't even in the building, he still feels like he has blood on his hands.

Shade must be hurt badly to show up as just a bit of shadow. But Barbara definitely reminds him of Emily enough that he made the effort. In the flashback, Sylvester said Shade had faced Eclipso before. And we've seen that Shade really hates when people hurt children. Could Emily have been his daughter?

4 episodes left and I have NO idea how they're going to end this.

 

Based on the thin tie and narrow lapels Pat had on, I was guessing the early 60's for the funeral.

 

Lord of the Green River Dance - YouTube

IMDB and Wikipedia list his height as 6.4. Having seen him live in the studio back in the nineties when he was cast member of 'Almost Live', I can confirm that. He towered over the cast during the goodbyes at the end of the show. The only two cast members that came close to his height were Bob Nelson and Bill Nye the Science Guy.

 

Eclipso first appeared in the comics during 1963. That would seem to fit.

Also Sylvester Pemberton started out as the Star-Spangled Kid as an actual kid. They even showed his small costume in a display case. Which would be decades before that.

Honestly I understand some healthy skepticism that this show would really commit to such an elaborate back story. But there have been hints of it from the beginning. Dragon King was supposedly executed in 1947. Immortal super-villain alone is not a new idea. But there have been many allusions to generations of superheroes and super villains going back to WWII. Maybe it’s the benefit that I first watched season 1 right before this one . So all of this is fresh in my mind.

I do hope we get at least some concrete details soon. Geoff Johns said he likes slow reveals. But we need solid mark points to building a storyline path to flow. If this mystery goes on for a 3 and 4 season fans can get lost. We need a skeleton structure of a backstory that they can ad the meat of details later on.

 

My only question about the time frame here is if all the JSA+ are aging very, very slowly and the current stuff is supposed to be set in the modern day, in 2020/2021... does Barbara know this? I assume so?

And uh.... does it apply to Wendi Tyler? Was Rick just born really late? Or... hmm, was Wendi Rex's second wife?

 

I caught that! Nice detail.

The song playing in the flashback when Pat is working on the car is "Too Lovely to Forget" by Connie Conway. It was released in 1956.

Hubby and I were both a little surprised that they mentioned Eclipso beating Dr. Fate and Spectre. Those are pretty heavy hitters on the mystical side of things in comics! I'm guessing they either weren't that powerful in the original JSA comics and/or the writers depowered them here.

That's a good question.

 

Both were pretty powerful in the Golden Age. Capable of doing whatever the plot needed. Fate was "depowered" in his own strip back in the Golden Age, from all powerful magician to low rent Superman. Got "repowered" in the Silver Age.
Eclipso is pretty powerful. In one version he was the Spectre's predecessor as The Wrath of God.

 

Thank You! I have been trying to figure out the name of that song all week.

At this point I would interpret the name drops of defeated or deceased JSA as just that - names drops. Hard to say how many of those characters can appear if the writers want. Any magical based characters could be brought back if they want. The so called defeats are temporary. Same for deaths. We could we the reincarnated versions of a Hawkman and Hawkgirl in the present. Given how far in the past that appears to be.


In a Flash Podcast interview last week - John Wesley Shipp was asked a lot a details about Jay Garrick. With humor and straight up honesty said - ASK Geoff Johns.

Yet at the same time, not a reveal- but just in in terms of how he approached his performance as an actor - he feels this was part of the backstory of Jay we have seen on The Flash. This was the first time we have seen Jay Garrick in his own environment. As a leader. Not as a guest.

Crisis changed the multiverse. Jay and Joan may currently be living on Earth Prime. But impossible to reconcile them originating from there for numerous reasons. Most of all that they are the doppelgängers of Barry Allen’s dead parents. On Batwoman we saw Alice and her doppelgänger from an alternate Earth living on Earth Prime but that caused problems. Jay and Joan are likely ok because Henry and Nora are already dead. But that does not mean they came from “this Earth”. John as said repeatedly that his appearance on Stargirl opens up crossovers with the Arrowverse. That seems all he is officially able to answer.

Probably a Flash season 8 spoiler...


He did reveal he is returning to film on that show in about a week or two. Likely right after the 5 episode Armageddon event. Which is still shooting.

 

Shipp has done an amazing job playing the role of Jay Garrick. It would be surprising to see him playing the role differently, unless it was explicitly part of the plot.

I think the choice to cast Shipp in the same role in Stargirl says something about the writers' intent. This may not be the Jay we knew in Flash, but I think we're supposed to acknowledge Jay's history, integrity, and honesty by seeing an actor playing the role that we already know and respect.

Also, it was fun.

 

Shipp's Jay is solid and dependable. Like a DC Captain America.