Poll "Small Universe Syndrome" - Yay Or Nay?

[fireproof78]

I think George was so dialed into making Anakin as young as possible while still being able to competently interact with adult characters that him being 9 and the equivalent of a child mechanical genius was something on which he was unwilling to budge. The younger and more innocent he is the more tragic his eventual downfall. That's definitely a point which can be argued since as I posted above Anakin could have been 13, still a kid and still traumatized by being separated from his mother whom he's forced to leave behind in slavery. His road to the Dark Side would still be the same and his childhood wouldn't need to be jettisoned, only advanced a few years to the onset of puberty.

But George being George his way ruled the day. I guess we're lucky that Jake Lloyd was so endearing and convincing as a child Anakin that everything else can be reasoned out and accepted if reluctantly, because had George cast the wrong child actor we'd be complaining about far more than the age difference between Anakin Skywalker and Padmé Amidala.

I think this is the bigger thing, and I recall a reviewer I enjoyed online commenting in a similar vein-George wanted Anakin to be all these things, a pilot, an inventor, a dreamer, a love interest, and it was too much to cram in to this character starting at 9 years old. The dynamic between Anakin and Padme is off from the beginning because he is trying to infuse so much weight in this relationship.

 

[cooleddie74]

He went too big and it had dramatic consequences.

 

[fireproof78]

He went too big and it had dramatic consequences.

I think that, as much as Lucas struggled, there is a very innovative thread that runs through his thinking. I think, and I see this both in my own attempts at writing and others, there is a tendency to weigh the main character down with "terrible purpose" (to borrow from Frank Herbert) of the main character. They are burdened to carry all of this weight from the author, which I think is reflective of Lucas' own state of mind as he crafted the prequel story and then rewrote them again and again.

I think that the PT could have had a bit more dramatic weight if the characteristics of Anakin were spread out a little bit more. Obi-Wan could have been more impulsive, rather than the dutiful Jedi already. His brief moment of impulsivity in AOTC in jumping out the window seems to be Lucas' only nod to "So was I, if you remember" line in Empire Strikes Back. The other side is a lot of the drama comes from dialog, rather than what occurs on screen. We are told that Obi-Wan is like Anakin's father, but they are snarky, sarcastic and snipping back and forth with each other throughout. Again, if we had Anakin just a little older that rebelliousness would have felt more understandable. As it happens it feels more dead weight than dramatically satisfying.

 

[cooleddie74]

Lucas was definitely more bold and creative than J.J. and Rian Johnson were, I'll give him that. Few people expect truly bold things out of J.J.'s writing and direction and frankly we didn't get them in the Sequel Trilogy save for Rian's creative choices. George, on the other hand, has a far more original and creative mind and his problems come in execution and direction.

 

[XCV330]

Yeah, Sting was (is?) a big fan of Carl Gustav Jung.

Sometimes the loch ness monster is heading at your door and you can't hear it above the din of your rice crispies. You can't hear anything at all.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Sometimes the loch ness monster is heading at your door and you can't hear it above the din of your rice crispies. You can't hear anything at all.

Why are they eating Rice Crispies in Scotland? That's why a quiet breakfast food like porridge oats was invented - to stop Nessie creeping up on you unawares.

 

[fireproof78]

Lucas was definitely more bold and creative than J.J. and Rian Johnson were, I'll give him that. Few people expect truly bold things out of J.J.'s writing and direction and frankly we didn't get them in the Sequel Trilogy save for Rian's creative choices. George, on the other hand, has a far more original and creative mind and his problems come in execution and direction.

He did, and he deserves credit for a pioneering spirit that has inspired many filmmakers. When it comes to the ST I think that J.J. and Rian both were shooting for recapturing emotional moments for themselves that the Star Wars films had done for them, rather than going a little bit bolder. And, as much as they kept taken to pieces, I can't fault them. Lucas went pretty far outside of what was considered a "Star Wars movie" at the time with the PT and got torn apart for it.

 

[cooleddie74]

And it's in J.J.'s nature as good and nerdy a man as he is to not take too big a risk. He'll go for bold visuals and camera tricks but with storytelling he tries to play it relatively safe and just double down on the stuff that's come before.

 

[fireproof78]

And it's in J.J.'s nature as good and nerdy a man as he is to not take too big a risk. He'll go for bold visuals and camera tricks but with storytelling he tries to play it relatively safe and just double down on the stuff that's come before.

Which is pretty much what is being rewarded nowadays. Audiences, in a very broad general sense, like the connectiveness, the familiar, and the safe. this is not really a time for bold choices and unique stories. There is a longing for the comforting feelings of a warm fuzzy brand that we can flip on and not be offended by.

 

[Noname Given]

And, arguably, the bulk of that was carried by EMPIRE, which he neither wrote nor directed.

And the director of Empire (and it wasn't Lucas for Empire) allowed Harrison Ford to change one of Han Solo's lines.

When Han is about to be frozen in carbonite, and Leia says, "I love you."; Hans scripted response was, "I love you too."

But Harrison Ford didn't like that line as he didn't feel it fit the character, and the director agreed, so that's how we got the classic line:

"I know."

If George Lucas had directed Empire Strikes Back; it's guaranteed he wouldn't have allowed to change at all and we'd have a "love scene" has been as what we got in the prequel trilogy.

 

[fireproof78]

And for Empire the director (and it wasn't Lucas for Empire) allowed Harrison Ford to change one of Han Solo's lines.

When Han is about to be frozen in carbonite, and Leia says, "I love you."; Hans scripted response was, "I love you too."

But Harrison Ford didn't like that line as he didn't feel it fit the character, and the director agreed, so that's how we got the classic line:

"I know."

If George Lucas had directed Empire Strikes Back; it's guaranteed he wouldn't have allowed to change at all and we'd have a "love scene" has been as what we got in the prequel trilogy.

I recall (perhaps it is hearsay) that Harrison Ford had remarked about Lucas' writing that "you can write this but you can't say it." A lot of the dialog we see that works in the OT is a result if being able to play around with it. In the PT Lucas had a very specific look and feel he wanted, and it shows in terms of the presentation. But, the flip side of it is that it has a very sterile feel, and that the dialog lacks the emotional response that feels more natural, more organic.

 

[Owain Taggart]

And for me it was either George's direction or at the time neither Hayden Christensen nor Natalie Portman were that good a pair of actors. Some of their acting and line delivery imo was atrocious; but again it's possible that It was all because of the way George directed the films.

I tend to think it's the latter, in that it was both writing and direction that was at fault. I think they're much better actors than these films show us. Shortly after, for example, Christansen starred in Shattered Glass and he gave a very good performance in that. The difference was almost night and day.

In the PT Lucas had a very specific look and feel he wanted, and it shows in terms of the presentation.

Remember when the special edition was done to match the look of the PT and make it more consistent as a saga? I kind of admired the ambition, and I was kind of disappointed that the ST didn't follow through in using similar aesthetics in terms of screen transitions and such. That's another element that made the ST stick out to me, and not in a good way.

If Portman had looked more like she did in Leon it wouldn’t have seemed as weird.

Yep, exactly. If you cast Leon era Portman with Jake Loyd, becomes more acceptable.

 

[cooleddie74]

George just isn't very good at getting complex human emotions out of actors when he directs. ANH may have been peak George when it came to that and even in 1976 the actors ribbed him for telling them to just do takes "faster and more intense."

 

[Owain Taggart]

^ The line with Luke complaining about picking up the power converters comes to mind.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'll take the relationship stuff in American Graffiti over Star Wars any day.

 

[cooleddie74]

Luke mourning his dead Uncle and Aunt and Obi-Wan comforting him after finding their bodies might be the most genuine, organic emotion George gets out of the actors in ANH other than the victorious X-Wings returning to Yavin IV at the end of the film.

 

[fireproof78]

Remember when the special edition was done to match the look of the PT and make it more consistent as a saga? I kind of admired the ambition, and I was kind of disappointed that the ST didn't follow through in using similar aesthetics in terms of screen transitions and such. That's another element that made the ST stick out to me, and not in a good way.

See, I appreciated the ambition too but it makes the PT stand out all the more to me because the feel is very different. The OT has a style to it that is a bit more smooth, while the PT feels more sterile. The ST feel closer to the OT for me. Mileage will vary.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

the PT feels more sterile.

I suspect that was intentional.

The PT, being set in a time when the old Republic was still active, would naturally tend to be more slick and glossy. With the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire, things gradually get dirtier and grittier.

 

[fireproof78]

I suspect that was intentional.

The PT, being set in a time when the old Republic was still active, would naturally tend to be more slick and glossy. With the fall of the Republic and the rise of the Empire, things gradually get dirtier and grittier.

That's not what mean. I mean it feels lifeless, cold, rigid. No joy in the film.

 

[Owain Taggart]

. The ST feel closer to the OT for me.

It does, but it also has the feeling that it's disconnected from the rest despite all of the OT it relies on. It just feels strangely inconsistent with what came before it.