Intentions behind Archer?

[Charles Phipps]

I would doubt that, since Kirk never really did anything inappropriate like that, especially with a crewmember. He always pushed Rand away, and was deeply embarrassed at his holiday flirtation with Noel. There is no reason for that bit of dialogue to have that context, outside or in-Universe, IMO.

I disagree as the context would be that Kirk would have a joke as an incredible ladies man in-universe even if it is grossly exaggerated and untrue compared to the serial monogamist he was in Starfleet. As we know from the Roddenberry novelization, the series is in-universe television and greatly distorted the reputation of the crew as well as their adventures.

 

[Phoenix219]

I've never bought Rodenberry's explanation, and its definitely not canon, as later series have directly referenced the 60s show directly (like DS9 and ENT). Respectfully disagree..... it wasn't directed at Kirk, but rather confirming to her superior officer that she has fulfilled her requirements, which I assume is an agreement with any Deltan entering Starfleet..... Don't know why he would have that reputation so early on? The missions (mostly classified) would have just ended, and he was a "book with legs" at the academy. Its not like most of his liaisons, real or imagined, would have been public knowledge.

 

[oldtrekkie]

I've never bought Rodenberry's explanation, and its definitely not canon, as later series have directly referenced the 60s show directly (like DS9 and ENT). Respectfully disagree..... it wasn't directed at Kirk, but rather confirming to her superior officer that she has fulfilled her requirements, which I assume is an agreement with any Deltan entering Starfleet..... Don't know why he would have that reputation so early on? The missions (mostly classified) would have just ended, and he was a "book with legs" at the academy. Its not like most of his liaisons, real or imagined, would have been public knowledge.

Kelvin Kirk hits on everything that moves.

 

[Phoenix219]

Kelvin Kirk hits on everything that moves.

If anything was an in-universe production of TOS, its those Kelvin movies..... that would actually explain a whole lot.....including taking creative liberties with the source material.

 

[JaxsBrokenHeart]

Star Trek Beyond excepted, a lot of the Kelvin Kirk is based on the caricatured pop culture version of the original, exaggerated ladies man tendencies included.

 

[Kor]

... As we know from the Roddenberry novelization, the series is in-universe television and greatly distorted the reputation of the crew as well as their adventures.

That was Roddenberry's shoehorned-in attempt to distance himself from the TV show years after the fact, as part of his re-imagining of the Trek universe for the big screen. And novels aren't "cannnon." There were other daft notions in the TMP novelization that (thankfully) never made it into cinematic or televised Trek.

I've never bought Rodenberry's explanation, ...

Roddenberry's attempt to retcon away TOS as some kind of exaggerated in-universe fictional portrayal could work if TMP was considered its own self-contained continuity, and if all the following Trek productions had been along the same lines as TMP, under Roddenberry's tight control. But that's not the direction that the franchise went. TWOK came along and was a direct sequel to a TOS episode. The scenery-chewing theatricality and melodrama of TWOK were quite at odds with TMP, but TWOK was a fitting thematic follow-up to the swashbuckling, larger-than-life heroics of the series.

Kor

 

[Charles Phipps]

I think that overstates things. Roddenberry didn't dismiss the television series, he dismissed the idea they happened exactly as on screen with cardboard sets.

 

[fireproof78]

Star Trek Beyond excepted, a lot of the Kelvin Kirk is based on the caricatured pop culture version of the original, exaggerated ladies man tendencies included.

And makes for a very interesting character to boot, but that's off topic

I think that overstates things. Roddenberry didn't dismiss the television series, he dismissed the idea they happened exactly as on screen with cardboard sets.

Indeed, which is why the holding on to TOS (or any other series for that matter) as occurring literally is not always helpful. If there is a discontinuity, it's due to the storyteller not having all the information. It's more enjoyable to treat the TOS as presented as dramatic recreations and realize that not all events may have occurred 100% as presented. Otherwise, Kirk threatening to spank a visiting head of state might seem rather undiplomatic.

 

[dupersuper]

3 years of TOS.
7 years (6-1/2 actually) of TNG.

Plus 2 years of TAS and 6 movies...

The transporters don't work on the whole, "Kill and Clone" principle that was discussed forever in fandom. They even made the Barclay episode to show your consciousness remains intact throughout. So there's no point in backing up your pattern because if you die, you're still dead.

The point would be unless/until you die of something else, you wouldn't age.

 

[Phoenix219]

Plus 2 years of TAS and 6 movies...



The point would be unless/until you die of something else, you wouldn't age.

But you wouldn't gain new memories. Thats not an immortality that I would want. But as a back up before a dangerous mission? Why not. Jump beam the corpse back into its old pattern and for the transportee, it would be like "why am I back on the ship? Did the transporter break?"

 

[dupersuper]

But you wouldn't gain new memories.

Not according to Unnatural Selection. When they de-aged Pulaski she remembered everything.

 

[Phoenix219]

Not according to Unnatural Selection. When they de-aged Pulaski she remembered everything.

And I have always had a huge problem with that. I do believe that in other cases, it was the opposite, but I can't remember off the top of my head. Either way, I guess there could be a difference between filtering DNA or whatever nonsense they were using, and actually beaming back into your exact old pattern.

 

[oldtrekkie]

And I have always had a huge problem with that. I do believe that in other cases, it was the opposite, but I can't remember off the top of my head. Either way, I guess there could be a difference between filtering DNA or whatever nonsense they were using, and actually beaming back into your exact old pattern.

Whether people are aged or de-aged by the transporter they always retain all their memories.

 

[Mytran]

Whether people are aged or de-aged by the transporter they always retain all their memories.

I think the only exception is TNG's Lonely Among Us where Picard is de-aged by an hour or two, explained as them using an earlier "Picard pattern".
This would conflict with TAS's The Lorelai Signal where the crew's earlier patterns were used to restore our aging heroes' youth and vigour, but they all seemed to retain their memories.
I suppose the actions Picard took in Lonely Among Us were said to be unusual, perhaps justifying the difference?

 

[WarpTenLizard]

But Archer sucked at his job, he was impulsive, undiplomatic and often refused to listen to T'Pol because of his dislike of vulcan politics. He was an incompetent asshat he never should have gotten the job.

Oh come now, I'm sure he was doing the breast that he could.

 

[Starkers]

What they should've done is have Archer be the ideal captain on paper but be in for a rude awakening when it actually comes time to be humanity's first interstellar explorer. Sometimes he gets it right, sometimes he gets it wrong, sometimes he needs to ask for help.

And on the other side of that coin, because Mayweather is a spacer, you could've had an interesting situation on the bridge where the lowly ensign is more qualified than everyone who ranks ahead of him.

But nope.

I remember when I first read up on the characters that Travis and Hoshi seemed the most interesting; the youngest member of the crew who's been further into space than anyone else, and the crewmember terrified of space travel, but those character traits were soon forgotten which is a shame, particularly with Travis. An interesting dynamic would have been to have Travis as first officer because he's logged more hours in space than the rest of the crew put together.

You'd think with Travis they might have learned from Neelix, having a character who's knowledgeable about the region of space they're traversing is one thing, but eventually you pass beyond the sphere of their knowledge and experience and you have to rebrand them as the cook.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

it wasn't directed at Kirk, but rather confirming to her superior officer that she has fulfilled her requirements, which I assume is an agreement with any Deltan entering Starfleet....

Exactly.

Ilia's vow of celibacy had absolutely nothing to do with Kirk personally. It's simply because she's Deltan. And since everyone knows that Deltans are hyper-sexualized, any Deltan in Starfleet would have to take extra precautions. That's the only meaning behind that scene.

True, Ilia did joke about it a bit ("I would never take advantage of a sexually immature species") - but that was directed at Decker, not Kirk. And she only said that because Decker was a former lover.