Spoilers Star Trek: Lower Decks 2x05 - "An Embarrassment of Dooplers"

[bookworm8571]

I can buy that Kirk and Spock ended up in the same bar at some point when they were young and carved their names into the table but not that they were “a couple.” On the other hand, I could also guess the bartender capitalized on the story and their later fame and someone else carved their names as a tourist attraction.

So “Becky” Mariner apparently was living on Starbase 25 and associating with the other local juvenile delinquents when one or both her parents were stationed there. I wonder how many strings her Dad pulled to get her into the academy.

The Federation is not a utopia. Neither is Starfleet. Of course there is classism and captains who are more equal than others.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Hilariously, its Roddenberry canon that plenty of people assumed Kirk and Spock were lovers despite them not being so.

 

[eschaton]

That was a great episode. Easily the best of the season to date, though not quite at Crisis Point levels yet. It really is stunning to me how they manage to fit so much genuine character development into episodes with less than 30 minutes.

First, I loved the fact that this episode stands on its own without significant "memberberries." There were of course callbacks to lots of old Trek (lots of aliens from TAS were seen here) but the central plot elements did not rely upon any established Trek lore or tropes. It was pure Lower Decks, and rested upon the characters themselves.

And what good character work there was here - particularly the end. Boimler and Mariner had a great arc across the episode - arguably the conclusion of an arc which began with the first episode. Their relationship has transformed from one where Boimler is basically Mariner's punching bag to one where they both can admit they are genuinely fond of one another and show some vulnerability. Indeed, for the first time I detected a tiny hint of romance there...though I'm here for whatever in terms of what may happen.

That wasn't all though. Rutherford was given depth for the first time as well (similar to Tendi in the last few episodes) with some layers beyond a guy who really geeks out regarding Starfleet tech. Even Captain Freeman had a bit of an arc from wanting to be invited to the "grown-ups table" to accepting her actual place as being pretty good, all things considered.

Honestly, I couldn't ask for much more in an episode of Lower Decks.

 

[bookworm8571]

Hilariously, its Roddenberry canon that plenty of people assumed Kirk and Spock were lovers despite them not being so.

Sure there are rumors but Kirk is a serial womanizer in every incarnation and Spock was married, presumably to a woman, and possibly Saavik (per Picard, who attended the marriage of Ambassador Sarek’s son) and had dalliances with Leyla and Zarabeth in the original series and with Uhura in the movies. Neither was presented as gay.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Sure there are rumors but Kirk is a serial womanizer in every incarnation and Spock was married, presumably to a woman, and possibly Saavik (per Picard, who attended the marriage of Ambassador Sarek’s son) and had dalliances with Leyla and Zarabeth in the original series and with Uhura in the movies. Neither was presented as gay.

Yeah, obviously. None of which was contradicted by the episode.

 

[ToddCam]

I don't think anyone was arguing that Kirk and Spock were lovers. However, bi/pansexuality and a broad range of preferences exist, so Kirk or Spock could have had sex with hundreds of women each and then also each other.

Unrelated, I groan a lot while watching Lower Decks but I didn't despise anything until now. But I can say I really hate the Dooplers. I guess it would be considered racist, but there should be a protocol disallowing them from being in the presence of other sapients. Especially in such contained environments as a starship. I was mentally screaming for Shaxs to just start slaughtering them/him. Especially since they seem to be extensions of one person rather than actual individuals. They are so world-breakingly stupid. Where does the matter come from when they form? Are their clothes projections of their consciousness? Is this jerk the most personable of the species that they sent him as their representation with the outside universe? How does life function on Doople or whatever their stupid planet is called? Ugh, I hate the Dooplers SOOOO much.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I don't think anyone was arguing that Kirk and Spock were lovers. However, bi/pansexuality and a broad range of preferences exist, so Kirk or Spock could have had sex with hundreds of women each and then also each other.

Unrelated, I groan a lot while watching Lower Decks but I didn't despise anything until now. But I can say I really hate the Dooplers. I guess it would be considered racist, but there should be a protocol disallowing them from being in the presence of other sapients. Especially in such contained environments as a starship. I was mentally screaming for Shaxs to just start slaughtering them/him. Especially since they seem to be extensions of one person rather than actual individuals. They are so world-breakingly stupid. Where does the matter come from when they form? Are their clothes projections of their consciousness? Is this jerk the most personable of the species that they sent him as their representation with the outside universe? How does life function on Doople or whatever their stupid planet is called? Ugh, I hate the Dooplers SOOOO much.

"Doppler Duty" implies that this is apparently one of the ****iest jobs in the Federation.

 

[eschaton]

I don't think anyone was arguing that Kirk and Spock were lovers. However, bi/pansexuality and a broad range of preferences exist, so Kirk or Spock could have had sex with hundreds of women each and then also each other.

Unrelated, I groan a lot while watching Lower Decks but I didn't despise anything until now. But I can say I really hate the Dooplers. I guess it would be considered racist, but there should be a protocol disallowing them from being in the presence of other sapients. Especially in such contained environments as a starship. I was mentally screaming for Shaxs to just start slaughtering them/him. Especially since they seem to be extensions of one person rather than actual individuals. They are so world-breakingly stupid. Where does the matter come from when they form? Are their clothes projections of their consciousness? Is this jerk the most personable of the species that they sent him as their representation with the outside universe? How does life function on Doople or whatever their stupid planet is called? Ugh, I hate the Dooplers SOOOO much.

It didn't make much sense, but my headcanon is basically they're energy beings which just take on the physical form of a short, bald dude.

 

[thribs]

I don’t think Kirk and Spock ever had sex with each other. That doesn’t make any sense.
They were just friends and he was probably drunk when he did it.

 

[ToddCam]

I don’t think Kirk and Spock ever had sex with each other. That doesn’t make any sense.
They were just friends and he was probably drunk when he did it.

I don't think so either (and I say this as a gay man, the idea of the two of them together is somewhat repulsive), but I also don't care much about rigid definitions of 'gay' and presenting as anything.

 

[Aeolusdallas]

I don’t think Kirk and Spock ever had sex with each other. That doesn’t make any sense.
They were just friends and he was probably drunk when he did it.

No one is claiming that they did

 

[eschaton]

Since it was brought up higher in the thread, I actually hope Tendi and Rutherford don't end up together.

My headcanon right now is Tendi is asexual - in part because that helps subvert expectations regarding the "sexiness" of Orions. She may like Rutherford as a friend, and even semi-romantically, but has no desire to "be" with him.

 

[Andru]

Alex Kurtzman in the beeping chair. Priceless. Now he's canon.

 

[Tuskin38]

One of the Aliens at the Starfleet party was based off one of Saru's concept designs

Some of the pictures in the bar included the TOS Enterprise, Voyager, the Bajoran Light ship and M'Ress.

There were also models of The Guardian of Forever, the Phoenix and Doomsday device.

but Kirk is a serial womanizer in every incarnation

Not in TOS. That aspect is completely exaggerated by people.

 

[Tuskin38]

This entire wall is TOS/TAS references

Here's the Saru concept alien

 

[bookworm8571]

I don't think so either (and I say this as a gay man, the idea of the two of them together is somewhat repulsive), but I also don't care much about rigid definitions of 'gay' and presenting as anything.

I’d just find it unrealistic, given the relationships the characters had in the series and with each other. But I’d say the writers ARE implying it, as much as they are with Boimler and Mariner, and having some fun with the shipper fans. Slash fanfiction featuring Kirk and Spock has been around since the 1970s.

 

[bookworm8571]

Not in TOS. That aspect is completely exaggerated by people.[/QUOTE]

Yes, in the original series too. He had a different woman every few episodes. It was pretty much obligatory at the time for a “leading man.”

 

[ThreeEdgedSword]

They've done the "The lady doth protest too much" cliche with Mariner/ Boimler several times now. This time, the lad doth, too. So I fully expect they will be writing them aas a couple soon, which I'm not a huge fan of. (Plus, I think Tendi has a thing for Rutherford, so...) I hate the trope that whenever you have a guy and a woman with a good friendship/ chemistry, thy have to enter a romance.

Oh, and I think they totally stole the joke the bird people made from... er, I mean they paid homage to Asterix.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Guys, I think the Spock/Kirk thing has gone on enough. I do think that the two of them bonding after being kicked out of a party for not being cool enough is weirdly heartwarming.

They've done the "The lady doth protest too much" cliche with Mariner/ Boimler several times now. This time, the lad doth, too. So I fully expect they will be writing them aas a couple soon, which I'm not a huge fan of. (Plus, I think Tendi has a thing for Rutherford, so...) I hate the trope that whenever you have a guy and a woman with a good friendship/ chemistry, thy have to enter a romance.

Oh, and I think they totally stole the joke the bird people made from... er, I mean they paid homage to Asterix.

If I had to choose between Mariner/Boimler and Tendi/Rutherford, I'd prefer the former over the later while preserving the latter's friendship. Rutherford just not feeling the same about Tendi.

 

[tomalak301]

I had mixed feelings about this episode. I hated the Doopler story and since someone else brought up the trouble with Edward, I hate it even more. However I liked the Mariner and Boimler stuff as the episode went alone and I even got a little sentimental with the crew at the bar and the number 1 joke.

I think I’m giving it a 6.