Spoilers What If...? discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
- Start date
This week is the zombie episode
https://twitter.com/whatifofficial/status/1434894161862279168
https://twitter.com/whatifofficial/status/1434894161862279168
And stores around here have Halloween candy out already, c'mon wait til October! I never read any of the comics with Marvel Zombies but hopefully it's fun. The only hitch with What If? has been it's chained to the MCU which for as expansive as it is kind of limits the playing field when it comes to these kind of stories in terms of characters and concepts that have been introduced at least in comparison with the comics and broader material that could otherwise be drawn from.
The term "Marvel Zombies" referred to really hardcore Marvel comics fans back in the '60s and '70s (and perhaps beyond). I'm hoping this outing will be an homage to that in some way, and will actually be somewhat amusing but we'll see.
I wonder gruesome revelation that episode will reveal. Finding out Captain America fed on Maria Hill? Or an unlucky Avenger
That's cool--I never knew that--I only knew of the alternative universe series that started as a one-off and then kept coming back, just like Zombies do.
This is pretty much my attitude when it comes to wacky time travel stories. It’s why I give the ending of ENDGAME a pass because even though it’s not consistent with with the time travel mechanics laid out earlier it’s at least emotionally true and a satisfying coda for Cap.
or as Basil says…
It's consistent if you assume Cap went to an alternate timeline and lived out his life there. I think one of the filmmakers says that's how it happened while another says it was the same timeline, so we can pick the version we like.
And before anyone says "Wait, but the TVA didn't allow variant timelines to exist until after Loki season 1," keep in mind (as I keep having to remind myself every time my brain brings up that objection) that it's impossible to define when Loki took place relative to the rest of the MCU, since it's a time travel story. From Loki's personal perspective, it happens in 2012, since it begins immediately after he escapes at the end of The Avengers. And the rest of it happens all over the timeline and in a timeless void. So there's no clear way to define "when" it became possible for alternate timelines to exist.
It's not consistent either way. If you assume he went to a different timeline because it's impossible to ever not go to a different timeline, then you just create the different problem of what the hell he was even trying to do with 'returning' things to 'where they came from', since that would literally be impossible.
Plus the question of why - if all time travel goes to pre-existing alternate timelines - it would even matter for them to 'trim the branches' or how exactly it's at all heroic to return the Aether to a world where Malekith is about to use it to nearly destroy everything in that timeline or to return the Tesseract to SHIELD knowing that likely leads to Loki killing hundreds of people, and so on, keeping in mind that since they are alternate universes you can't actually say 'everything works out in the end' with any real certainty.
I guess that's the advantage of an anthology show like this. You don't have to follow every episode.
Basically exactly that. If people get a kick and enjoyment over analyzing and discussing all the details, all the power to them, I love it when people enjoy things. I enjoy it my way.
I never lost hope for you.
Possibly not, but then again, if any of it feeds into the live action stuff I'll probably feel the need to go back and check it out.
There's a much simpler explanation. Moebius refers to the time travel of Endgame in the past tense and says that was supposed to happen. So apparently, the temporal antics of Endgame are part of the Sacred Timeline and thus the TVA allowed it without interfering.
To someone from a time agency able to move anywhere in history, everything is in the past tense. "The past" just means "the part of history we already know about," and these guys know all of it. To me, that's much simpler, in-universe, than trying to concoct some excuse for why the characters in an agency existing outside of time, or the Loki for whom it's 2012, would define "the present" the same way we television/movie viewers perceive it.
Besides, insisting on the idea that other timelines didn't exist until "after" Endgame prevents accepting the alternate-timeline stories in Agents of SHIELD and Runaways (though the series finale of the latter contradicted Endgame's temporal physics anyway).
Yes the evil doctor strange took centuries to amass the power that he needed; but as soon as he had that power he went back to the exact time of the accident so that he could change that point in time. <--- The spirit of the ancient one appeared to the copy she made at a time I assume she believed he was powerful enough to either talk some sense into his counterpart, or be able to stop him in some way.
But yeah overall for me, this one didn't really make a lot of sense. Here you have both the time travel aspect, tohe amount of time it took for one version of strange to amass the power he did; and somehow the dead Ancient One; who in the Doctor Strange MCU film could never see past the point of her death, somehow able to return from the dead to send the 'good' Strange back In time to stop the evil Strange. Plus you have the universe this all takes place in seaming to compress itself down into what looks to be an infinity soul stone...
The Ancient One didn't send him, Evil Strange summoned him just as he had all the others he'd absorbed.
Well, we can't have that, so I'm fine with saying we can have them as of variant Loki's escape in 2012. Also, for the record, I'm of the opinion that Steve went back in the prime timeline, maybe with a slight memory spell from The Ancient One when he stopped there to drop off the time stone to keep his knowledge of future events buried until the appropriate time.
Sorry to digress even further but this is what made absolutely no sense in Loki - i never understood why the Avengers messing with the timeline was ok but Loki messing with it was not.
You can't also argue that a single person can't be present more than once in a single timeline because they allowed Steve Rogers to go back in time to live out his life with Carter while the other body was frozen in the ice at the same time.
In any way - it's best not to dwell too much into time travel stories because most of them quickly fall apart if examinded too closely
( please don't use my post now to continue this discussion )
I find that i true for most sci-fi.........and really at this point I just want to be entertained a little while........so I try not to tug on any strings.
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