Spoilers What If...? discussion thread

[Christopher]

I honestly can't remember how true north is defined, to know what makes it "truer" than magnetic north.

It refers to the geographic/rotational North Pole, which is unchanging. (Well, mostly. I think I read once that all the dams and artificial lakes humans have built have shifted the mass distribution of the planet enough that the rotational axis has moved fractionally as a result.)

Also, -has- the series’s Watcher actually used the name Uatu at any point?

I don't think so. IMDb lists him only as "The Watcher," though the MCU Wiki lists him as "Uatu/The Watcher." It stands to reason that he's Uatu, because he's the narrator of What If...?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Also, -has- the series’s Watcher actually used the name Uatu at any point?

The dialogue only refers to him as The Watcher, but the closing credits lists him as "Uatu/The Watcher."

 

[Skipper]

I was watching this episode with a friend of mine and at one point we paused it and asked ourselves "But did this Christine also appear in the original film? We don't remember her at all!". We only continued after re-reading the "Doctor Strange" synopsis on Wikipedia.

Just to say how memorable the original character was for us ...

 

[MakeshiftPython]

In the original she and Strange were no longer dating, which is why he crashed his car alone. They don’t even play up the romance beyond a bit of banter. Otherwise she’s more of a colleague.

 

[Noname Given]

I really didn't care for this last one.

And I guess the ending shows: The Soulstones of the MC-Multiverse are all from Timelines where Stephan Strange 'saved' Christine...

 

[Christopher]

In the original she and Strange were no longer dating, which is why he crashed his car alone. They don’t even play up the romance beyond a bit of banter. Otherwise she’s more of a colleague.

Hmm, that's what I thought. Which means the point of divergence between universes isn't just that Strange invited Christine to the event that day, but that they had become a more serious couple well before then. And it isn't really clear why.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Makes one wonder that if this Strange had learned that there was another quantum reality where Christine lives but that they couldn’t be romantically together up to a point, would he be willing to let her go so she could live and he’d sacrifice his hands, or is he too obsessed?

 

[Commander Troi]

I nearly forgot and no one else has mentioned it... did anyone else notice this ep had "mirror universe" Wong?

 

[Noname Given]

Hmm, that's what I thought. Which means the point of divergence between universes isn't just that Strange invited Christine to the event that day, but that they had become a more serious couple well before then. And it isn't really clear why.

In the film he did invite her to the event, but she declined because she didn't want to go to an event where it was just him talking and being all full of himself.

 

[Christopher]

In the film he did invite her to the event, but she declined because she didn't want to go to an event where it was just him talking and being all full of himself.

Okay, but doesn't that show that their relationship was pretty tense? In this episode, they seemed really lovey-dovey and Strange really seemed devoted to her, which I have a hard time reconciling with my recollection of the movie. It seems like a major change in his personality, not just a single decision.

 

[Noname Given]

Okay, but doesn't that show that their relationship was pretty tense? In this episode, they seemed really lovey-dovey and Strange really seemed devoted to her, which I have a hard time reconciling with my recollection of the movie. It seems like a major change in his personality, not just a single decision.

I wouldn't say it was tense per se. I always got the impression that maybe they had a short fling together and it didn't work out, or when said fling happened Stephen Strange wasn't at a point where he wanted a relationship, but over the years they work together he was still interested. The other aspect of that scene was him remarking as to whether she was seeing the other doctor that strange considered a friendly rival at work, and just how far that possible relationship had gone.

But yes it was clear that Stephen Strange really wasn't sure he wanted to commit to a relationship with her or not, but he did seem romantically interested in her a bit, Eeven before the accident.

After the accident she of course took a role in supporting Stephen emotionally, but he of course was blind to how she may have felt because at that point all he was interested in was restoring his hands and his career above all else.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Okay, but doesn't that show that their relationship was pretty tense? In this episode, they seemed really lovey-dovey and Strange really seemed devoted to her, which I have a hard time reconciling with my recollection of the movie. It seems like a major change in his personality, not just a single decision.

What we’ve seen in previous episodes is that someone makes a different choice, seemingly inconsequential at the moment, which leads to drastic consequences. In Peggy’s case, she decided to stand near Steve’s procedure rather than observe from a glassed room. That’s all it took to eventually make Captain Carter happen.

I assume that during a point where Stephen and Christine would have broke off like in the MCU, she decided to continue instead, and that lead to her eventually being in the accident that killed her.

 

[Christopher]

I assume that during a point where Stephen and Christine would have broke off like in the MCU, she decided to continue instead, and that lead to her eventually being in the accident that killed her.

Yeah, but that's the point -- in the first couple of episodes, we were shown the specific moment of decision that caused the change, but here it's more vague and we're left with assumption and conjecture. And it's not a simple decision like Peggy choosing which room to be in or Yondu deciding to give a job to his underlings rather than doing it himself. A lot would've probably gone into Christine's decision whether or not to break it off with Strange. It wouldn't have been a momentary whim. And it would've probably been in response to something, some difference in Strange's own behavior, rather than just the flip of a coin. That's the hangup for me. He was such a total jerk in the movie that it seems the change would've had to be much further back in his life and much more major in order for him to be someone she was willing to stay with.

I'm realizing this just compounds the problems with how this episode treats Christine. She's reduced to an object with no agency and personality, a cosmically designated victim whose only purpose is to die to motivate the male lead, and more than that, there's no thought given to her own decisions or thought processes, to the question of why she would stay with him instead of breaking up with him. The writer has no interest in her as a person with a mind of her own. Even though her decision is the pivotal one behind the divergence, the reasons for it are totally ignored. It just doesn't work.

Granted, in episode 3, we didn't get any explanation for why Hope became a SHIELD agent there when she didn't in the original continuity. But I can excuse that because the cause of the divergence was kept a mystery until the end, and because it's in character that Hope would be willing to do that kind of work if she was given the chance. (Come to think of it, though, she was also killed off to motivate a male character. I don't want that to become a trend. Let's hope they used up all their fridges for the rest of the season on Christine.)

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Fair enough, it didn’t bother me.

 

[Seven of Five]

I perhaps didn't like this episode as much as the other ones, but it was a nice tragic story seeing Stephen trying to save Christine over and over again.

 

[ToddKent]

Yeah that was a weird one.

I think I missed something. The bad Dr. Strange spent decades obtaining more power right? So was he sent backward in time to confront the good Dr. Strange or was the good Dr. Strange sent forward? How exactly was their confrontation facilitated? Maybe there was a line somewhere that explained it and I missed it?

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Yeah that was a weird one.

I think I missed something. The bad Dr. Strange spent decades obtaining more power right? So was he sent backward in time to confront the good Dr. Strange or was the good Dr. Strange sent forward? How exactly was their confrontation facilitated? Maybe there was a line somewhere that explained it and I missed it?

I'm pretty sure the Ancient One sent the good one to the place where the bad one had been studying - which I'm not sure if that was backward in time or forward or outside of time or just in the present, but in a time bubble that let him pass centuries in minutes. The bad one then took the good one with him to save Christine.

 

[Christopher]

I think I missed something. The bad Dr. Strange spent decades obtaining more power right? So was he sent backward in time to confront the good Dr. Strange or was the good Dr. Strange sent forward? How exactly was their confrontation facilitated? Maybe there was a line somewhere that explained it and I missed it?

As I recall, they both went back to the time of the car wreck, so Dark Strange could revive Christine and Regular Strange could try to stop him.

 

[Noname Given]

Yeah that was a weird one.

I think I missed something. The bad Dr. Strange spent decades obtaining more power right? So was he sent backward in time to confront the good Dr. Strange or was the good Dr. Strange sent forward? How exactly was their confrontation facilitated? Maybe there was a line somewhere that explained it and I missed it?

Yes the evil doctor strange took centuries to amass the power that he needed; but as soon as he had that power he went back to the exact time of the accident so that he could change that point in time. <--- The spirit of the ancient one appeared to the copy she made at a time I assume she believed he was powerful enough to either talk some sense into his counterpart, or be able to stop him in some way.

But yeah overall for me, this one didn't really make a lot of sense. Here you have both the time travel aspect, tohe amount of time it took for one version of strange to amass the power he did; and somehow the dead Ancient One; who in the Doctor Strange MCU film could never see past the point of her death, somehow able to return from the dead to send the 'good' Strange back In time to stop the evil Strange. Plus you have the universe this all takes place in seaming to compress itself down into what looks to be an infinity soul stone...

 

[Mage]

I'm one of those people that doesn't analyze every moment of it and just goes along for the ride.

The ride was good. The ride was emotional. The ride had some flaws in the execution. But the ride had the right feels in the right place. That's what matters. And I felt pretty f+*%ing drained after this one.